Bought myself a mini lathe..

Pcmaker

Obsessed Member
#41
This is killin me. just bought a $700 mini split unit for my garage all because of this lathe.. and that $1500 bare mill is calling my name... and it comes with practically nothing
 

NYECOGunsmith

Obsessed Member
Staff member
Moderator
#42
I told ya, you end up spending 5X to 10X as much $$ on the tooling in the first couple of year as you spent on the lathe or mill.

For the issue of the dial not following the revolution of the compound or cross feed hand crank exactly, part of what I see in the video is what is known as wink or backlash. There is play in the gears that drive the carriage, cross feed and compound. The crank will turn some amount before the lash (distance between meshing gear teeth) is taken up and the carriage, cross feed or compound actually starts to move. The dial should follow the crank if the set screw is connecting it to the cranks shaft, and you have to learn how much the dial will falsely indicate in the direction of movement, then compensate for this mentally by adding that many thousandths to the crank to get the distance of feed you want it to move.

This backlash takes place every time you reverse the direction of whateve crank you are turning.

If we ever get out in my shop I can demonstrate this, I have digital readouts on my lathe and mill, DROs only show actual movement of the part the crank being turned affects, so you can see the crank and dial move some amount with no change on the DRO , then once the wink is taken up you see the DRO start to show movement.
You can adjust the wink out of a gear train, but you should not get rid of all of it, the gears will wear much faster if you do that.

And you can get DROs for your new lathe and that mill by the way......insert evil grin and maniacal laughter here, along with sound of bank account being sucked dry.....
 

Pcmaker

Obsessed Member
#43
Yep, I'll definitely be getting DROs in the future. I just want to be more familiar with the manual dials first.

Just bought $160 worth of garage door insulation. My AC will be arriving on Monday. Can't wait to hook everything up. I already ran dedicated power to the spot I'll be putting the unit in. I'll run the refrigeration lines, power, and condensation drain inside the wall.
 

NYECOGunsmith

Obsessed Member
Staff member
Moderator
#45
BAAAAAAWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA! YES! ANOTHER one dragged kicking and screaming to the dark (fun!) side of the shop! Gotcha firmly hooked now, and you definitely need to visit the shop so I can teach you about work holding, climb versus conventional milling, speeds and feeds, depth of cut, different types of end mills for different metals, uses, etc. plus all the dial indicators, tools, etc. you now NEED to go with the mill.
Congrats on the new addition to the shop...………...and again...………………..
BAAAAAWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA! SLURUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRP, there goes that bank account draining ever faster...……………...
 

TexasJackKin

Breathng Free, at last
Forum Supporter
#48
Another way to deal with backlash, is to always make the move to the final position in the same direction. If a move requires travel in the opposite direction, move past a half turn (or more), then make the move back in the same direction you've been using. This will work for locating holes and what not, but will not work for pockets. Also, make sure you have the slack out against the way the cutter will want to climb. There are nuances to the above advice, like wear in the screw (normally worse in the center portion). I generally make the final move with a clockwise turn of the handle, not because that's the best way to do it, but because I'm not smart enough to remember which way I'm working so do it the same way (at least most of the time).

I've operated a lot of mills with a lot of back lash. You can still do good work, but it requires, thinking the job though. All part of the fun!
 

Pcmaker

Obsessed Member
#49
Can't believe they haven't even shipped my mill yet.

Also, I need some sort of hoist in my garage to lift and lower my lathe and mill. Thinking of anchoring some type of sliding pulley system on the ceiling
 

NYECOGunsmith

Obsessed Member
Staff member
Moderator
#50
The only safe way to anchor it to the ceiling would be to penetrate the dry wall (if the ceiling is drywalled) and use U bolts around the rafters to support the rail or put a beam in the attic that spans the rafters, then support the rail at each end with U bolts that go over the beam in the attic. Lag screws into the rafters would not be safe, they will pull out under the weight.

Just rent or borrow or buy a cherry picker (engine hoist) and use that, more mobile and I don't think your lathe or mill will exceed the capacity of most engine hoists, they are generally 1 ton minimum.

My big lathe weighs about 2.200 LBs, and the Mill twice that, I just rented a fork lift to put them in place, because my shop ceilings are 18 feet high. If they were lower the engine hoist would have done it.

Use nylon straps for the connection between the lathe or mill and whatever means you use to lift it, and if it's not readily apparent where the lift points are, ASK before you sling it up and start to lift, otherwise you risk damaging either one or both machines.
 
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#51
Hi All:
I don't want to hi-jack the thread, but thought it was the best place to ask a lathe question. I picked up a Clausing 12x36 model 5914 lathe yesterday.
I heard it run and i came with a lot of tooling. The only problem I have is it is a 3 phase motor and the converter was not included in the deal. I need a little help with the type of single phase 220v to 3 phase 220v converter to consider. Any suggestions would help. Attached is a pic of the machine.It is good size and HEAVY.
jimf5
in Pahrump
20180628_094032.jpg 20180628_094032.jpg
 

NYECOGunsmith

Obsessed Member
Staff member
Moderator
#52
That's a great lathe Jim! Congratulations!
Had one like it for years in my first gun shop.

DO NOT get tricked into buy a STATIC Phase Converter, and don't bother looking at a rotary phase converter either , they are expensive and heavy and NOISY. Get a VFD, Variable Frequency Drive, converts single phase 220 (or even single phase 110 in some models ) to true 3 Phase 220 VAC.
They are less expensive that the rotary phase converter , you can change the speed on the lathe by varying the frequency (mine goes down to 1 Hertz, and up to 400 Hertz) and do a lot more with it as well.
You just need to find one that is sized for the Horsepower rating of your lathe's motor, or slightly larger.
Brands like Hitachi, Haskawa, Mitsubishi, WEG, Fuji, TECO., are good ones in my experience. Will run you between $200 and $$400 depending on brand, features, and the horsepower size you need. My Haskawa ran me $200, it was a brand new take off I got from a machinery supply dealer, someone ordered at tool that came with it on it, but wanted another brand instead, so they took it off and sold it at a reduced price, that's fairly common, mine will handle up to a 5 HP motor, my lathe and mill are only 3 HP, so plenty of capacity.
 
#53
Steve
Thanks for the info, that is what I was looking at. The only question I have is how will this converter work with the Vari Drive set up that came with the machine. It is a hyd. clutch that speeds up and slows down the motor.
jim
in Pahrump
 

TexasJackKin

Breathng Free, at last
Forum Supporter
#54
The picture looks like you have a variable pulley system, so the working diameter of the pulley changes, and that changes the speed of the machine, not the actual motor. Just like on a vari drive setup on a Bridgeport mill. Some one please correct me, if I'm looking at the picture wrong.
 

SoLasVegas

Not a new member
Forum Supporter
#55
For the poor man’s version of the DRO, you can make a very simple one for these small lathes with digital calipers and some other odds and ends. Here’s one of several videos showing the build:

 
#56
Texas Jack
You are correct about the pulley VS. My concern is if I am using the converter and it affects the Head stock speed and at the same time want to use the pulley to +/- R.P.M. will there be a conflict?
jimf5
in Pahrump
 

TexasJackKin

Breathng Free, at last
Forum Supporter
#57
Texas Jack
You are correct about the pulley VS. My concern is if I am using the converter and it affects the Head stock speed and at the same time want to use the pulley to +/- R.P.M. will there be a conflict?
jimf5
in Pahrump
I would think you would be fine. I'm a retired Machinist, I know enough about electricity to know I'm not an electition. :)
 

NYECOGunsmith

Obsessed Member
Staff member
Moderator
#58
Jim, don't worry about the VFD and your vari speed drive combination. You can just set the VFD to output 220 VAC at 60 Hz and forget it exists if you want to, and then run the lathe as though you had spent the $20,000 that Valley Electric wants to bring three phase 220 VAC from the pole to your shop or garage!

Or you can use the Vari Speed drive and the VFD together to get pretty much any speed you want, I use one with my Bridgeport with the vari speed drive, and since I installed upgraded bearings into the quill of the Bridgey, it will , with the vari speed and VFD, go from a low of 1 (ONE) rpm to a high of to a bit over 28,000 RPM, where on 220 VAC 3 Phase at 60 Hz without the VFD it's speed range was 60 RPM to 4,250 RPM.

Lower the Frequency (measured in Hertz) from the normal 60 Hz , with the VFD, and the speed goes down, torque stays the same, raise the speed by increasing the frequency above 60 Hz (my VFD goes from 1 HZ to 400 Hz , that's about normal range for most of them) and the speed goes up and the torque stays the same, no loss of torque because of higher speeds.

Hook up is simple, but you might want a qualified electrician to do it to keep your home owners insurance happy.

Extremely simplified version of the install:
Basically all that you do is wire a plug and cord like is used on many electric dryers, to the terminals on the VFD labeled input.
One wire is a neutral , there are two 120 legs, and a ground wire.

On the output of the VFD are the three phases, A, B, C, and those go to the motor.

If the motor runs backwards after install and firing it up, just reverse any two of the three phase leads (A, B, or C) to the motor at the VFD output terminals, that will reverse the motor's direction. In fact, on a three phase motor, that's how reversing ins controlled, the electric reversing switch generally controls a pair of relays. Turn the switch to "FORWARD" and one relay gets picked with the phases arranged, say, A-B-C, flip the switch to reverse and a different relay gets picked that puts the phases to the motor in A-C-B or B-A-C or C-A-B order and the motor runs in the opposite direction.
 
#59
Thanks again Steve. I had a feeling you would chime in with a few words of wisdom. I am set for a few weeks with installation of a 220v line into the garage, already got the P.V.C. electrical tubing and fittings. Now all I need is to pick which VFD to get.

Jim
in Pahrump