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C&R Buying in California




Nevada Hudson

Obsessed Member
#1
Even with a C&R license was told that you cannot go into a store or pawn shop in California and buy C&R guns if you live in Nevada or any other state.
What you think?
 

titanNV

NRA Endowment Member
Administrator
Forum Supporter
#3
Wow! That sounds about right for California - circumventing Federal law to implement for restrictions on their subjects.

But, whether or not this is true, I do not know.
 

MAC702

LEGEN...wait for it... DARY!
Commercial Sponsor
Forum Supporter
#4
I do know that CA doesn't give C&R FFLs the same things we get everywhere else. I don't know what all the differences are, though, so you may have very well heard correctly.
 

NYECOGunsmith

Obsessed Member
Staff member
Moderator
#5
Wasn't true when I lived in CA, but have been gone nearly 14 years now. But I, as a retired Federal Agent, can't see how CA could enforce a law like this, as it would be a transaction between two federal licensees, and is not subject to a background check because both parties have a FFL.

If CA were to have such a law, and try to enforce it, they would also have to require a background check on transfers from 01 FFL to another 01, or 07, etc. interstate or intrastate, either one.

And they would require a 01 FFL who buys a gun from anyone, licensed or not, to submit themselves (the purchasing FFL I mean) for a background check and hold the gun for the required 10 day waiting period.

Not treating all FFLS in this manner would likely result in a flood of federal civil liberties lawsuits, and harassment suits being filed against the state, the governor and legislators who wrote, passed and signed that law.

On the the other, the above thoughts are just me being logical and viewing what would have occurred in the past, when I stilled worked for a living, and of course, we are talking about CA, so all bets are off, there's no applying logic to those whack jobs.

I still have friends who own gunshops and pawshops in CA, with FFLs, and one's wife is a gun toter for the CA DOJ, will ask them about this tomorrow.

Edit to add:
And since it is still legal to acquire C&R firearms from CA via the usual delivery methods (UPS, FED EX, or USPS for long guns), from out of state, I can't see why CA would try to limit it to that method, and not allow for the purchase of the C&R guns in person while visiting CA.
I acquired a C&R handgun and a rifle from CA via UPS just a few weeks ago, and the Gunshop I got them from never mentioned violating any CA laws, and they would, the owners are the buddy and his DOJ wife I mentioned above.
 
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MAC702

LEGEN...wait for it... DARY!
Commercial Sponsor
Forum Supporter
#6
Man, there is a lot of conflicting info out there. I'm deleting my post until I figure it out a bit more. But it seems even a CA C&R holder has to ship their guns to a retail FFL instead of to their C&R address.
 

NYECOGunsmith

Obsessed Member
Staff member
Moderator
#7
As the TV theme song used to say : "Go right to the source and ask the horse",,,,,,,,so I called the California Department of Justice Fire Arms Division.
Got a nice lady enforcement agent who explained it to me thusly:
If you are in CA and wish to buy a gun from a California Certified FFL Dealer, and you have a 01, 03, or any other class of Federal Firearms License, you can purchase a firearm (handgun, rifle, shotgun ) face to face in CA from a Dealer PROVIDED you are a CALIFORNIA RESIDENT with a CA Drivers License and a CA FFL Dealer ID, but if you are from out of state, no matter what class of FFL you have, you CAN NOT purchase a firearm in CA face to face from a FFL dealer due to California state law.

HOWEVER, you can hand that dealer your FFL and have them SHIP the gun to you at the address on your FFL.
She was quite nice and said, it makes no sense that CA thinks they can supersede federal law and require the gun to be shipped, when federal law allows for the immediate transfer and possession of it between FFL holders.
And I wonder how shipping the gun somehow guarantees the that FFL and ID were valid!

This is why my buddy didn't have any issue with shipping me those guns, but had I been in his shop, under CA STATE law, he couldn't deliver them to me immediately because I am not a CA resident, with a C&R and the COE , it requires both of those plus CA DL in order to immediately pick up (no 10 day waiting period) a C&R firearm.

And get this, if I were a CA resident and FFL holder, before he could ship them to my shop (yup, no face to face transfers either between CA FFL Dealers) I would have to contact the DOJ and get a California Licensee Check Verification Number prior to shipping a gun to another CA FFL.
So CA figures that it isn't enough that the Feds have authorized you to sell, send and receive firearms, CA has to do so also.
I sure am glad to be out of that state.

California Firearms Licensee Check (CFLC) – Required

California state law prohibits all FFL holders (other than FFL Type 03 or Type 06) from delivering, selling, or transferring a firearm to a FFL in California unless, prior to delivery, the Licensee intending to deliver, sell, or transfer the firearm obtains a verification number from the DOJ. The CFLC program allows the FFL to obtain firearms shipment verification numbers via the Internet prior to shipping firearms to any FFL in California.


As you can see above, even if I am a FFL dealer outside of CA, and I want to ship a gun to a FFL in CA, I have to get that same verification number prior to shipping the gun, or I will be violating CA law.


She also mentioned this new law, after I had mentioned that I was a manufacturer in CA some years back: From the DOJ Web Site:

REMINDER: Serial Number Requirements for Manufacturing or Assembling a Firearm or Owning a Firearm that Does Not Bear a Serial Number after July 1, 2018.

Commencing July 1, 2018, prior to manufacturing or assembling a firearm, a person shall apply to the Department of Justice (Department) for a unique serial number or other mark of identification.


By January 1, 2019, any person who, as of July 1, 2018, owns a firearm that does not bear a serial number assigned to it shall apply to the Department for a unique serial number or other mark of identification. (Penal Code 29180).


For more information about the Unique Serial Number Application (USNA) process, visit the USNA webpage.
 

Mr. B

Obsessed Member
#9
And I wonder how shipping the gun somehow guarantees the that FFL and ID were valid!
It doesn't. Just like every other CA gun law it does nothing to actually improve public safety - and was never intended to. It acts as designed - to place delays and add costs to exercising your rights - creating what the courts call a "chilling effect" when it impacts other rights.
 
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NYECOGunsmith

Obsessed Member
Staff member
Moderator
#10
It doesn't. Jjust like every other CA gun law it does nothing to actually improve public safety - and was never intended to. It acts as designed - to place delays and add costs to exercising your rights - creating what the courts call a "chilling effect" when it impacts other rights.
We need a sarcasm emjoi, I would have put a half a dozen or so after my comment about the shipping making sure the FFL and ID were valid.
After serving Uncle Sam for 41 years, 31 of it as a Federal Agent, and owning a gunshop for a good part of that, some of the time in CA, nothing politicians do, or CA does, surprises me any more. What does surprise me is that the citizens are willing to put up with it. But I guess the sheeple have been genetically modified sufficiently now to be quiet and complacent.
 
#11
We need a sarcasm emjoi, I would have put a half a dozen or so after my comment about the shipping making sure the FFL and ID were valid.
After serving Uncle Sam for 41 years, 31 of it as a Federal Agent, and owning a gunshop for a good part of that, some of the time in CA, nothing politicians do, or CA does, surprises me any more. What does surprise me is that the citizens are willing to put up with it. But I guess the sheeple have been genetically modified sufficiently now to be quiet and complacent.
Yes , and California votes in a gas/diesel and registration tax. France of all places, has had enough !