Draft

oly29

uber Member
Forum Supporter
#1
Question, for those that have served, if they re-instated the draft, would you let your son or daughter be drafted?
 
#3
Not gonna happen, so I wouldn't spend much time worrying about it.


That being said, I spent over a decade on active duty, both enlisted and officer, and my father was a career enlisted soldier and Vietnam vet (retired as a Command Sergeant Major), and will share my opinion on the underlying question of military service.


I used to think it would be great if my son wanted to do a hitch in the Army or Marines (those are the services you enlist in if you want to see what you are made of), but after 15 years of war in Iraq and Afghanistan, and seeing too many young men return with their bodies and minds shattered, I have come 180 degrees, and would NOT want my kids to join the military. Particularly not as an E1 Enlisted right out of high school.

Not worth the risk of destroying their future, and ending up dead or crippled to fight a conflict that has seen us gain very little in 15 years, IMO.
 

oly29

uber Member
Forum Supporter
#4
I didn't spend as much time as you, only 4 years in the Air force 72-76, but I did spend some time in the middle east, Egypt and Turkey. All of my kids are now beyond the draft age, but like you if I had younger kids I would not want them in the military.
 

snubbyfan

Army Veteran. Specialist 5th. Class
#5
No one, no matter who makes the claim or how large their number, has the right to forcefully (draft) remove someone from their home, with or without their parents consent, and go fight a war they may or may not believe in. Additionally, there would be far fewer wars we enter if the draft was dissolved. If this country was directly being threatened by another nation, there would be plenty of volunteers.
I say this as someone who was drafted during the Vietnam war.
 

Mr. B

Obsessed Member
#6
While I agree that "the draft" (or involuntary conscription of civilians into the military) will not return any time soon, people have been drafted in recent years.


Although I served my career in the "all volunteer military" I was drafted - twice. They just call it "stop loss", and only draft vets/those currently serving.
 
#7
I am a career Marine Corps officer; completed twenty plus years of service and am on the retired list. If I would have been asked prior to 911 about instituting a national draft, my response would have been hesitant and reluctant. Reasons would have been about introducing discipline and morale problems from draftees which would make NCO, SNCO and officer jobs much more difficult taking precious time away from training handling leadership challenges. Fast forward to today, after deploying to Iraq in 2003, 2004, 2006 and 2007, my response is that it is a national disgrace that a national draft was not implemented for the war on terror. There are many, many more service members who deployed more times and for longer durations than me, from not only the active force, but also from reserve and national guard units. The American public grew tired of the war news; many probably do not remember when the media stopped reporting daily causalities. It was so bad, in terms of finding military personnel to deploy, that I remember at a processing camp in Kuwait after my 2007 Iraq deployment, being approached in the holding tent by U.S. Navy sailors who were pulled off of their destroyer to deploy with the army in Afghanistan. I also recall news of big enlistment bonuses with an age deferment up to 45 years old. Can you imagine a forty-five year old in boot camp! I can personally attest to fellow Marines that I served with during the invasion into Iraq in March 2003, that were killed during their second deployment in 2004. Many others who I served with were wounded in life altering ways. So the long answer to the question of the draft; absolutely yes! The American public needs to be intimately aware and personally involved with their family members; no exceptions for any status such as wealth or education, period!
 

pooty

Member
Forum Supporter
#8
For any civvies reading this, the reason they won't bring back the draft is that the force would be less effective AND the politicos wouldn't be able to as easily deploy them to conflicts that the American people have no interests in. Instead of what the founding fathers intended, a the minuscule active army backed by a massive citizen militia, we have this quasi-mercenary military known the 'all-volunteer' force.
 

pooty

Member
Forum Supporter
#9
It was so bad, in terms of finding military personnel to deploy, that I remember at a processing camp in Kuwait after my 2007 Iraq deployment, being approached in the holding tent by U.S. Navy sailors who were pulled off of their destroyer to deploy with the army in Afghanistan. I also recall news of big enlistment bonuses with an age deferment up to 45 years old. Can you imagine a forty-five year old in boot camp! !
Yeah I can, I ran into a bunch of these guys, like a guy who had been part of a Soviet paramilitary unit, the ex foreign legionnaire, ex British Army officer, the guy who had to repeat basic training even though he had earned a Ranger tab, air asslt and airborne wings from the old days. Whole bunch of these gray haired dudes. Later on I deployed with two guys who had been drafted in Vietnam!
 

MAC702

LEGEN...wait for it... DARY!
Forum Supporter
#12
It depends on ....
Then, generally speaking, your answer had better be no.

I realize things are far more complicated, but it seems that it should be that the National Guard would remain stateside for defense of the homeland and not deployable to controversial actions overseas. It gives an option for patriots to serve that have a conscience about some of our country's endeavors.
 

snubbyfan

Army Veteran. Specialist 5th. Class
#13
I read a while back (can't recall the source) that 90% of the infantry who were in the Vietnam war were "drafted" and their average age was 19 yrs. old.
 

4D5

uber Member
#14
I was born in 1950 so that put me right in the cross hairs for the draft during Vietnam. Of my ten close friends only I and one friend had draft numbers less than 30, the rest of my friends had numbers greater than 250. Both of us decided to go in the USAF for four years and learn something and not become a statistic.

Back in the late 60’s every night the evening news reported and showed action in Vietnam. People finally had enough and I suspect that was one of the reasons the “war” came to an end without any victory for the USA, it was time to get out. I think the same sandbox broadcasts should be done now every night on the news just as was done in the 60’s. I suspect America would have a decidedly different approach to fighting “terrorism”. For all the time the USA has spent in the sandbox we have hardly little if nothing to speak of as a victory; only maimed, dead and PTSD casualties.

Only when the USA fights wars as General Patton did, will wars be short lived and VICTORY achieved. Our troops today are handcuffed by rules of engagement and such. We as a Country cannot fight everyone else's wars while leaving our own Country defenseless and vulnerable with unprotected borders and internal bickering over illegal aliens. Our Country needs to take a stand and make ALL things “make America great again”. That means making America a force to be reckoned with; once again feared and respected. No Country on earth would screw with America after WWII. Yes we lost a lot of brave soles, but we kicked butt all over the globe and we had VICTORIES. America was a County united!

As for the draft… I’d be good with either of the two; serve in the military for 2 years (a military which gets the job done Patton style) or the same amount of time in civil service (and I don’t mean picnic jobs).
 

pooty

Member
Forum Supporter
#15
Only when the USA fights wars as General Patton did, will wars be short lived and VICTORY achieved. Our troops today are handcuffed by rules of engagement and such.
The wars became un-winnable after the politicians and their advisers' desired end state for both countries became modern parliamentary democracies.
 

johnthomas

Henderson
Forum Supporter
#16
No one, no matter who makes the claim or how large their number, has the right to forcefully (draft) remove someone from their home, with or without their parents consent, and go fight a war they may or may not believe in. Additionally, there would be far fewer wars we enter if the draft was dissolved. If this country was directly being threatened by another nation, there would be plenty of volunteers.
I say this as someone who was drafted during the Vietnam war.
If he or she is over 18, it isn't between the Government and Mommy and Daddy, It is between the Government and the 18 year old draftee.
 

Makulit

Very Active Member
#17
Much younger than a lot of you I suspect. After spending a tour in Korea (where all males are required to spend a tour in the military) working with ROK army soldiers(Korean Marines) and KATUSA soldiers, I came to the decition that all U.S. citizens should go through Basic Training and an AIT Training program, and then have the option to ETS or stay in for a tour. I think it would help the population understand what it take to be in the military, and help understand what's going on around them. Not live completely detached like so many of the current generation do. Plus I think it would help so many that don't have a plan for their future, give them more time and different prespective to think on. I've discussed this with my parents(both Vets) and they agree.

My father was a Vietnam vet, and his draft number was low enough that he went ahead and enlisted thinking he'd get a safer job. He still got 3 purple hearts. My mother joined the army shortly after my father got back from Vietnam, she was put out when she got pregnant with me.
 

snubbyfan

Army Veteran. Specialist 5th. Class
#18
[QUOTE="Makulit, post: 1262405, member: 17452 "I came to the decition that all U.S. citizens should go through Basic Training and an AIT Training program, and then have the option to ETS or stay in for a tour" [/QUOTE]
No one should be forced to serve...that would be slave labor.
 
#19
A previous writer wrote the statement, "No one should be forced to serve...that would be slave labor." I strongly recommend that we all should study U.S. history, especially about compulsory military service. Well before the founding of our nation, prior to the declaration of independence, compulsory service in local militia was mandatory (as well as owning and maintaining firearms) in many of the colonies. Fines and punishments were handed out to those who failed to perform their militia service. During the U.S. civil war, one could pay money to avoid being drafted; there were violent draft riots in New York. The modern era of the draft was from 1940 to 1973; again many avoided being drafted thru connections with the local draft board, education deferments and joining the national guard to avoid overseas wartime service.

The U.S. military has since had the all-volunteer force; describing this as a quasi-mercenary force (as a pervious writer wrote) is ridiculous and personally insulting. The dilemma with this model has been recruitment problems, especially in times of overseas conflict involving combat or when the economy is strong. The U.S. Army failed to meet its recruiting numbers this year. From 2017 pentagon data, 71% of young Americans between the ages of 17 and 24 are ineligible to serve. That means over 24 million out of 34 million people of that draft age group cannot join, even if they wanted to. The reasons are: 32% have health problems, 27% physical fitness problems, 25% lack of minimum education, and 10% for criminality issues.

Presently, overseas deployments to conflict zones are dramatically smaller than just a few years ago. The U.S. military presence in Afghanistan is now down to 15,000 personnel. There are still many other area high-risk deployments; the overall numbers are still much lower than a few years ago. The draft should have been reinstated immediately following 911; the buy-in from the American public would have been more likely then. Instituting the draft now, probably does not make much sense. Unfortunately, much of our military has become a hollow-force coinciding with the President Obama administration coupled with the sequestration problems with the defense budget. A turn-around is fortunately starting to occur; expecting an instantaneous result is not reality, it takes time. Maybe, our country should fund our military back to a level where proper training occurs. Maybe we should look at somewhat reducing overall end strength and increase the professionalism, training and equipping to a level where we will never be defeated on the battlefield.
 
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