French 30-06 results





7.62

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#1
Just thought I’d share a few pics. Then plan was to shoot this in matches and not worry about the brass monkeys at the range. Well rethinking that now. Going to pull the bullets, fertilize the weeds and scrap the brass. I’ll post a pic of the headstamp later. If you come across this stuff I don’t think I’d chance it. The boy and I shot 50 rounds each, it was the same from both guns. That’s the same case in both pictures. F01D0328-C707-4943-A713-FCBACA707F14.jpeg 692310E8-7C14-41FE-92A3-D31F73E64DCD.jpeg
 

7.62

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#5
Yep, Yeah it looks fine on the outside, my guess is the corrosive primer salts are really doing a number on the base of the cases. Actually pretty accurate for what it is, kinda bummed it’s not safe.
252674E1-0885-46DB-BE58-D98A9B499799.jpeg 292DB65B-C009-44C5-9C52-37ED05BAABE5.jpeg 2095AC77-33AA-40EC-A885-CF4C43AFA655.jpeg
I guess that’s what 70 years does. I ended up with 1000 rounds free on a purchase....LOL. Now I see why and I’m glad none of it sold. So PSA if you come across this stuff I’d do a hard pass on it.
 

NYECOGunsmith

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#6
The corrosive priming salts don't get out of the primer pocket until the round is fired, and they have zero effect on brass, they only cause corrosion in ferric metals, like the barrel steel.
What does cause erosion of the brass, but again only after firing, is the even older Mercuric priming compounds. Mecury does weaken brass as it amalgamates with both the zinc and the copper that make up brass.

What I see from your pictures looks more like what I have seen in the past when old nitrocellulose based powder cartridges are more than about 50 years old, and the stabilizers in the powder are "used up" and the nitric acid in the powder then leeches out of the nitrocellulose and eats the inside of the cartridge and causes these ruptures.

Just being over 50 doesn't guarantee this will happen, I have quite a bit of 1914 through 1917 manufactured 30'06 that still goes bang on the first try, and does not flame cut the brass like this.

What makes the difference is how the ammunition was stored. Cool and dry is the key.
In a damp environment, particularly one that goes through excessive heat>cold temperature swings, the case may break the lacquer seal at the case mouth and then absorb moisture into the powder, which can speed the break down of the nitrocellulose.
 
#7
Have read similar bad things about this particular ammo.

A couple of years back saw a couple of Backpage/Armslist sellers with this stuff posted, so I did some research on the internet and decided to steer clear of it.

Glad I did.

Thanks for posting - good info for forum members.
 

7.62

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#9
LOL..JaAJ. Thanks Steve for the explanation. I’ll say one thing, I wasn’t expecting much from that cupronickel bullet but it printed some very respectable groups @100 yards off the bench supported. Definitely going to pull them and work up a load for them.

I may cut one case in half just to have a look at what the brass looks like on the inside.
 

NYECOGunsmith

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#12
Don't forget ol Pol Pot, he did away with a large number of his country men too, not as many as Stalin, Hitler, Mao, but he's still up there in the top 10 of history's greatest mass murderers.
In reverse order, off the top of me pointy head, I think the list for the last 120 years or so goes:

Yakubu Gowon, Nigeria
Mengistu Haile Mariam, Ethiopia
Kim Il Sung, North Korea
Pol Pot, Cambodia
Ismail Enver Pasha, Turkey
Hideki Tojo, Japan
Leopold II of Belgium,
Adolf Hitler, Germany
Uncle Joe, Jozef Stalin, Russia
and in first place.....Mao Zedong, China.

I've spent time in all these countries, and even decades after the deaths of all but two of the above (The first two are still alive), those countries are still reeling from the effects these dictators had on their populations, and their names are still used to scare little children.
 
#13
^^^
Spot on, Steve.

Whenever this topic comes up, sometimes in a different discussion forum, etc, I am shocked, amazed, and dismayed at the utter lack of historical knowledge of the average American.

If history were properly taught, and not with the current emphasis on "cultural contributions" and not offending someone, then perhaps there wouldn't be this huge push towards Socialism in our country.
 

Lrh502

Very Active Member
#14
The corrosive priming salts don't get out of the primer pocket until the round is fired, and they have zero effect on brass, they only cause corrosion in ferric metals, like the barrel steel.
What does cause erosion of the brass, but again only after firing, is the even older Mercuric priming compounds. Mecury does weaken brass as it amalgamates with both the zinc and the copper that make up brass.

What I see from your pictures looks more like what I have seen in the past when old nitrocellulose based powder cartridges are more than about 50 years old, and the stabilizers in the powder are "used up" and the nitric acid in the powder then leeches out of the nitrocellulose and eats the inside of the cartridge and causes these ruptures.

Just being over 50 doesn't guarantee this will happen, I have quite a bit of 1914 through 1917 manufactured 30'06 that still goes bang on the first try, and does not flame cut the brass like this.

What makes the difference is how the ammunition was stored. Cool and dry is the key.
In a damp environment, particularly one that goes through excessive heat>cold temperature swings, the case may break the lacquer seal at the case mouth and then absorb moisture into the powder, which can speed the break down of the nitrocellulose.
In english please!😃
 

NYECOGunsmith

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#15
In english please!😃
Amalgamates is just a fancy way of saying it binds or combines with the zinc and copper forming a new alloy, in this case one which is weaker than the original alloy of zinc and copper which makes brass.

An amalgam is an alloy consisting of mercury in combination with another metal.

The other metal can be in a liquid state, as mercury is, or it may be a solid , such as brass or zinc or aluminum or silver. The result of this combination may be a liquid, or a soft paste, or a solid, it depends on the proportion of the mercury in the alloy.

These alloys are formed through metallic bonding, which occurs when the electrostatic attractive force of the conduction electrons works to bind together all the positively charged metal ions, binding them together into a crystal lattice structure.
Almost all metals can form amalgams with mercury, the most common exceptions being iron, platinum, tungsten, and tantalum and a few others which escape my memory at the moment.

The amalgam of silver and mercury for example has been used for decades as a filling in teeth for cavity repair.

Mercury is also used in an amalgam to extract gold from gold bearing ore, the gold binds to the mercury and lets the other minerals in the ore sink to the bottom of the pool of mercury , then the gold is more easily separated from the mercury than it would have been in any other means out of the ore.

So in simple English, the mercury sticks to the zinc and copper and makes it weaker. :geek:
 

Lrh502

Very Active Member
#17
^^^
Spot on, Steve.

Whenever this topic comes up, sometimes in a different discussion forum, etc, I am shocked, amazed, and dismayed at the utter lack of historical knowledge of the average American.

If history were properly taught, and not with the current emphasis on "cultural contributions" and not offending someone, then perhaps there wouldn't be this huge push towards Socialism in our country.
That is part of the plan-keep the next generations ignorant of why are lucky to live in the US, even with all our current problems. And also the loony left imagine themselves creating the perfect utopian socialist society with them at the top and us proles on the bottom. They will have no scruples whatsoever, when they feel the time is right for them, of herding us into boxcars. Pol Pot IIRC killed the most people in terms of percentage of his country's population- around 25%. I think our enemies on the left would be comfortable with a higher percentage than even that.
 

7.62

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#18
Such drivel in today’s well educated society, it’s all common knowledge except for the lowest of dregs of our society.....you guys trying to be so smart....;).

I wonder if you know what some of this ammo was intended for ? I think it’s a pretty cool fact.
 

NYECOGunsmith

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#19
Well, lets see, it was loaded in the second quarter of 1958, or at least that is when the case was made, according to the head stamp, which makes it 51 years old at the most.
The VE on the head stamp means it was made at La Cartoucherie de Valence (Cartridge Factory of Valence) which shut down production in 1964, and was located in the town of Bourg-les Valence , municipality of Valence, under the department of Drome (As I recall that is the French way of saying county or State of Drome, which is also the name of a river there) , in the Auvergne-Rhone-Alpes region of France.
The letter D means it was loaded with "ball" projectile.

AS for what it was originally loaded for, your guess is as good as mine, since it should be standard M2 ball ammo and therefore usable in anything that is chambered for it, in other words it's not made specifically for a machine gun, or bolt gun, or semi auto rifle of a particular type, it's just standard M2 ball ammo.

All that said, everything I have ever read about this ammo says it is unsafe to shoot in semi auto's, and even in bolt guns, but that's what I have READ, and none of it was from authorities I recognize as being an authority on ammunition.
I have no personal experience with it so take that statement about it being unsafe as a warning and avoid shooting it, why take a chance that the statement is correct and ruin a rifle or be injured, and from the looks of your cases, that statement about the ammo being unsafe is very likely true.
 

7.62

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#20
it's a pretty simple answer, and while maybe not this ammo but it was used in fighters during the war. Before the 50’s and bigger cannons were installed. The idea of being in a prop plane and fighting in the air with 30 cal ammo fascinates me.