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How to get your 03 FFL (C&R) Curios & Relics License from the ATF







Pachinko Pistola

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#1
How to get your 03 FFL (C&R) Curios & Relics License from the ATF

Why should I get one?



Many stores such as MidwayUSA and Brownells give “dealer” discounts to FFL holders.

You can also avoid transfer and Brady fees by having certain firearms shipped directly to your home.


To be classified as a Curio & Relic, it needs to be over 50 years old, or a significant portion of its value must come from the fact that it is a collectible. The firearms with collectible value can be manufactured specifically as a collectible, or they can have historical significance for being issued to a domestic or foreign military. For example, a SVD Dragunov of Russian manufacture is a C&R gun even though it is not 50+ years old. A Makarov pistol manufactured for the Soviet army in the 1980s or 1990s is also considered a C&R gun. Most World War era firearms are classified as C&R (eg. our .30 M1 rifle). For a partial list of eligible firearms look here: http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-11/atf-p-5300-11.pdf List of firearms starts around page 18

How much is the 03 FFL license?
$30 for 3 years. You will QUICKLY make back the application fee through discounts and transfer/Brady fees. Just one firearm order will pay for the fee. Then it’s all savings!

Can I deal firearms with this FFL?
No. You need a 01 FFL to deal firearms. The 03 FFL is just for collectors. You can buy and sell firearms as any collector would, but you cannot make significant profits on frequent purchases and sales. If you are buying and selling too often and making too much money, the ATF will perceive this as dealing and they will not renew your FFL. You need to keep simple records of your transactions. ATF has the right to perform an annual audit on your collection, but the chances of actually being audited are extremely slim. I have never heard of anyone with a C&R FFL being audited.

OK. I’m sold. How do I get one?
Step 1) Go to this link. http://www.atf.gov/forms/dcof/
Enter your name, email, phone number, and mailing address.
On the right side, you will see some radio buttons. Select this radio button: “F 7CR (5310.16) - Application for License (Collector of Curios and Relics) Under 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, Firearms” Then click Add at the top. It will add the form to your order. Now select “F 5330.20 - Certificate of Compliance With 18 U.S.C. 922(g)(5)(B)” and add it.
Now click Submit to place your order. In a couple of day, you will receive these forms from the ATF.

Step 2) Fill out your ATF forms. The forms are almost identical to the Brady check forms that you fill out at the gun stores. The first form is for the ATF. It includes an area for payment information. Fill out this form and then mail it to the ATF.
The second form is the same thing, minus the payment information . This duplicate form is for your chief law enforcement officer. In Las Vegas, the chief law enforcement officer is the Clark County Sheriff, Douglas C. Gillespie. The Sheriff doesn’t have anything to do with your FFL approval, but you are required to mail him a copy of the form.

Step 3) The hard part: the wait. Mine only took 3 weeks to arrive. They are pretty good about getting your FFL to you.

Step 4) When your FFL arrives, DO NOT sign the original. Make several copies and if you have a scanner make a scan of it. That way you can print it out if you need a copy. Print about 10 copies of your FFL. Sign all of the copies in blue ink. Now send a signed copy to all of your favorite dealers. Don’t forget to write your customer id number on the FFL. That will allow them to display the dealer prices for your account.

That’s it. You’re done. Now put together that World War II collection that you’ve always wanted!

View the ATF FAQ here: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/collectors.html

UPDATE LINKS:

Mods may want to update the original post, and correct/replace the forms link. The correct page is here: http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5310-16-notice.html

Direct link to forms:
 
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AnakinsKid

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#2
I had no idea it was this easy. I'll be doing this right away. I just requested the forms.

Some questions I didn't see in the FAQ:

1) For the audit - does this take place at your residence, or can you opt to bring the guns and records in to the local ATF office?

2) Is there a "safe storage" requirement? Do you have to keep trigger locks on the guns or keep them in a safe?

3) Do you need to list all your guns in your "bound book", or just those that you acquire/dispose of with the C&R license?

4) It says you don't have to turn in your "bound book" records if you let the license expire, but is there a requirement for how long you must keep the records? Either xx years, or forever?
 

Pachinko Pistola

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#3
1) For the audit - does this take place at your residence, or can you opt to bring the guns and records in to the local ATF office?
It's up to you. You can do it at your residence, or at the nearest office. IMO you will only be audited if you're doing something suspicious like buying a crate of 20 rifles and selling them on gun broker every month :001_smile:

2) Is there a "safe storage" requirement? Do you have to keep trigger locks on the guns or keep them in a safe?
Nope, there isn't. But I personally keep all of mine locked up.


3) Do you need to list all your guns in your "bound book", or just those that you acquire/dispose of with the C&R license?
Only guns that you purchase with your FFL. If you go buy a gun at a gun store, it doesn't have to be logged. Even if it's a C&R gun. But why would you do that? :001_tongue:

4) It says you don't have to turn in your "bound book" records if you let the license expire, but is there a requirement for how long you must keep the records? Either xx years, or forever?
Nope. The day your license expires, you can burn the book.
 

Dark Angel

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#4
Who's tried this? I have requested the paperwork twice and still have not received it.
 

AnakinsKid

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#5
I requested the paperwork right after this was posted. The "Certificate of Compliance" came in about a week. The "Application for License" came a few days ago. I don't know why there was a delay between the two. I'll fill them out and send in sometime soon.
 

requiem

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#6
I sent away for my C&R stuff about 2 weeks ago. since i am getting more into older mil surp type guns, it only makes sense to do so.
 

NYECOGunsmith

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#8
I have had a C&R 03 since the class of license was first created back in the late 60's. Kept it when I retired 4 years ago, but turned in my manufacturer's license,dealer in NFA weapons and destructive devices as well as my 01 dealers license. You really don't need the dealers license when you have the manufacturers license and the two business share a common location, but its best to be safe with the BATFE!
That said,

Quote:
"3) Do you need to list all your guns in your "bound book", or just those that you acquire/dispose of with the C&R license?

Only guns that you purchase with your FFL. If you go buy a gun at a gun store, it doesn't have to be logged. Even if it's a C&R gun. But why would you do that?" (end quote)

If you want to be on the safe side with BATFE I would suggest the following:
Before purchasing the first C&R firearm with your new 03 license, I would get two bound books. List all the C&R pieces you already own in one, along with the purchase date, seller, etc. if you can remember or have that data.
This will help if you to prove what you HAVE used the C&R to acquire and what you have not used it for, ever do get audited. I have never been audited for my C&R, and only know one person who has, but two cousins in the BATFE Enforcement and Compliance division both say that they do occur and that they have done them.
In the second bound book list every firearm that you acquire AFTER getting your 03, whether you use the 03 to obtain it or not. Just make a note in the space most bound books provide stating that you did not submit a copy of the 03 to the seller of this particular piece as they were a private party, you bought it at a gun shop, show, whatever. BATFE likes to see these kinds of notes (so the cousins say) as it lets them determine exactly what the 03 has and has not been used for.
As I said, not required, but will keep the auditing agent in a good frame of mind.
Be meticulous about the entries in the second bound book as far as the required information goes. Print it neatly and legibly, and do so as soon as possible after receiving the piece.
While I have never been audited on my C&R, I was contacted by BATFE about a C&R piece that I purchased and later traded off, as it was the subject of a burglary and shooting some 10 years after I traded it off. The fellow I traded it to, also a C&R holder, didn't keep neat books, and couldn't provide some info on the piece when asked. Like verifying the model and serial number. BATFE wasn't happy with him. HE got audited. And because his records were so sloppy (he would often forget to log in new pieces for months after receiving them, sometimes not at all, and his handwriting was illegible) he received a fine and they didn't renew his C&R when it came due.

I was audited nearly yearly for the 30+ years I owned a gun shop. Never received a citation or even a down check. I was really anal about my books, kept multiple copies of them (perfectly legal as long as they match) and after PCs became available kept backup copies on it.
Should you have to be so paranoid? No. But the BATFE often oversteps their boundaries, and unless you want your life to become a nightmare, its best to be really careful with any FFL.
The only problem I ever had with BATFE was when I went out of business and sent in my books to the "Out of Business Records Center" in Falls Church, VA.
Got a signed receipt from the agent who signed for the registered package.
18 months later, got a nasty letter telling me I was in deep doo doo because my FFL's had expired and they had not gotten my books. It was signed by the same agent who signed for my books! Proved to him that they had gotten them. Got a letter stating so, and that I was good to go in their eyes now.
18 months after THAT got another nasty letter, same as the first but now instead of fines I was also facing jail. Called that agent, got him to conference in the first agent, got another letter telling me I was OK. The third 18 month period will be up in April of 2009, I am eagerly awaiting the next letter! Not betting they won't send it. But sure hope they don't.
 

requiem

Ain't nobody got time for that!
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#9
Wierd, I haven't gotten anything yet.
i guess requests are up because of Lord Obama as well.

funny, i had a C&R all filled out on my desk, but then had my ND which destroyed it. so i guess i am going to have to do it all again!
 
#11
Can anyone tell me exactly what I can buy for my own personal use and NOT for resale?

Example
Can I buy ammo at discounted prices?
magazines?
semi auto pistols and rifles?
AR lowers?

How about suppressors and FA sub guns if it's NOT for resale?


Thanks,



Paw:seeya:
 
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Pachinko Pistola

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#12
Can I buy ammo at discounted prices?
magazines?
Yes, through those dealer discounts mentioned in the first post.

semi auto pistols and rifles?
Yes, if they meet those criteria mentioned in the first post. Common semi-auto C&R pistols and rifles would be something like a M1, SKS or CZ-82. There are many more though.

Not really. I can't think of any that would be eligible.

How about suppressors and FA sub guns if it's NOT for resale?
I don't think the C&R has anything to do with that.
 

NYECOGunsmith

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#14
Most ammunition and parts and tool distributors such as Brownells, Midway USA, Samco Global Arms, etc. USED to offer a discount if you had a Curio and Relics Class 03 FFL. Most of them have stopped doing so, as there was no real incentive to continue it, as they were made painfully aware by BATFE that you (with the 03) were NOT a dealer and were not going to be reselling the merchandise.
So now you would have to check on a sale by sale basis to see if they are going to offer a discount just because you have the 03 FFL. Brownells no longer offers it, neither does Midway USA. At least they stopped giving it to me as soon as I turned in my Dealer and Manufacturers' FFLs, even though they have current copies of my 03 on file, and the fact that I have been doing business with Brownells for 40 years and Midway since it started in 1977, and do a fair amount of business with them still.

What the 03 FFL will give you is a pretty healthy savings on Mil Surp firearms, and a lot of others that you wouldn't think qualify as a C&R. Check out the BATFE web site and down load the most recent C&R list and take a look through it.
You can pick up Mausers for well under $100 each in great shape. Mosin Nagants for $80. Schmidt Rubin K31's for $79 each. And lots more.

There are NFA firearms on the C&R list, but you still have to comply with the NFA rules as well,even though some of them are also listed as C&R pieces. No savings there, as Full Auto stuff is still over priced compared to what it was before the May of 1986 additions to the NFA. Now a Madsen 9mm machine gun will run you two to three thousand, back then it was the entry level gun for NFA enthusiasts and could be had for $150-$300 tops. Thompson Subs were under $2k, not $20K plus like most are now.
There are some short barreled lever action rifles on there that are pure C&R, having been removed from the NFA section because they were made before 1898.
Best bet is to check out the web site, down load the list, and see if there is anything on there that floats your boat. If so, invest the $30 and have fun.
 

Pachinko Pistola

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I bought ammo as recently as a couple weeks ago with a discount from Midway. It's usually only about $1 per box though. Not much of a discount.
 

NYECOGunsmith

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#17
I bought ammo as recently as a couple weeks ago with a discount from Midway. It's usually only about $1 per box though. Not much of a discount.
INTERESTING! I bought some gunsmiths supplies from them about a month ago, mentioned and checked to see if they still had my 03 on file, they did, asked if there was a discount, was told "No, that's only for FFL Dealers".
Wonder if it changes depending on which order taker you are talking to? I've had that happen before.
Its either that, or they are giving you preferential treatment and giving the old guy the shaft. Hmmm, if I were in or from CA I might have to sue!
With the above info, I will keep asking for it each time I order from them and keep a record to see if it varies by order taker or if its just me that the hate or you that they like!
 
#18
INTERESTING!
Its either that, or they are giving you preferential treatment and giving the old guy the shaft. Hmmm, if I were in or from CA I might have to sue!
I'm from the People's Republik of Mexifornia and I can sue for you. There is a clause in the NRS that allows that. Same as shooting in behalf of a third party.
Now then, I would be inclined to sue Midway in your behalf but I'm afraid that you will in turn sue me if I lose.
We sue them because they do in fact hate you and therefore it will be a hate crime. After the win, you'll be shooting your choice of premium ammo at less than 10 cents per round for the rest of your life. Of course, I will want to order my ammo through you for the rest of my life.

:thumbsup:
 

Pachinko Pistola

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#19
INTERESTING! I bought some gunsmiths supplies from them about a month ago, mentioned and checked to see if they still had my 03 on file, they did, asked if there was a discount, was told "No, that's only for FFL Dealers".
Wow. That sucks. I always get a discount.

For example, I just checked the ATI Mosin Nagant stock and once I logged in it gave me 25% off.

 

NYECOGunsmith

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#20
OK, now I'm getting Urea Flow Termination (Politically correct form of Pissed off) and I'm gonna have Kurt sue them for everything they have. Pachinko, you testify in my behalf and I'll cut you and Kurt both in for 25% each of the ammo we get! I'll toss in free lessons on how to use some of the more obscure gunsmithing tools they have as well.
Think with my next order I will ask to speak to Larry (Potterfield) and find out what their real current policy is. Won't mention Pachinko getting a discount, on the off chance he's getting it by a fluke, don't want to screw up another shooters good deal. But if that is the case, I'm gonna have him place all my future orders along with his! Be worth the drive over to Vegas to pick stuff up, and then of course we'll have to go shoot some skeet or trap or sporting clays while I'm there.