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Mandalay Bay shooting

Ron_O

Cave Dweller
Gents, I'm about ready to lock this because the crap is REALLY GETTING OLD!

Things seem to calm down for awhile, then the snide comments start again. As well as the challenges about life experiences and personal backgrounds and qualifications. Over and over!

The same goes for the accusations, what ifs, tinfoil ideas, cop bashing, you name it!

I'd REALLY like to read this thread where it actually pertains to what we know about the incident, and what could possibly be in the near future.

And as most old timers here know, I am the probably the most mellow or lax Mod (babysitter) when it comes to discourse. I tend to let things work out on their own, but . . . even I am tired. So stop it!

And as you also know, I prefer to deal with things in the open. So no PMs.

If you have a (b****), personal or forum related, bring it! The worst that can happen is I lose an executive position in a high paying career! Or maybe a long deserved vacation from a volunteer gig!

-

If I do lock it, and you don't concur, (b****) at the new owners for letting me be a Mod! But at least wait until they are done with the upgrades!
No need to lock it down but you're right about the same old repetition. Maybe someone should start a good cop vs. bad cop thread and let it run it's course (or good reporter vs. bad reporter)?

But in the wake of the long draught of facts and details from LEO this is a natural flow of events. I honestly think some of these issues are totally valid and really come into play. If we shut down the thread then Lombardo's stonewalling wins while the people lose. You also empower those who offend and end up punishing all by shutting things down because of the actions of a few.

Not fair to others. Maybe if the site updates allow for a timeout or thread lockout option this won't be a problem. But I try to look beyond the outer statements of our members and try to find the reasons that some things are said or repeated.

When I first heard Trump continually bashing the fake news outlets I thought he was making a foolish and petty move. But over time it became increasingly obvious that he was dead-on and did a great service in educating a spoon-fed public which turned a blind eye to the motivations of the MSM. The misdirection of the MSM has proven to be one of the major problems of our time and threats to our Republic.

The 'facts' in this case may REALLY be the hiding from the public or purposeful misleading by those in charge. The FACT of intentional deceit. As Tony's said, without someone digging in behind the scenes we may never know. Don't allow the face of those doing the digging TAINT the evidence that's being uncovered. Blind squirrels finding nuts and all.

Lombardo has been locking down this info for months, to the overt criticism of news outlets worldwide. Shutting down this thread confirms to Dodgy Joe that his tactics are paying off, even with his most skeptical local critics.

Don't give Joe that kind of power. Does anyone have any doubt that he released his UNPRECEDENTED pre-report at least partially because of us? He continually denied that it had anything to do with his critics but we all know that that's a total crock. Fox News has shamed him three ways to Sunday which has obviously triggered a massive amount of local questions and pressure from which he hasn't been able to escape.

That is indeed the job of an unrelenting press and skeptical critics. Without them even the info we have now would have been buried ad-infinitum. Servants of the People vs. servants of the government is a major topic. Not a fun topic but certainly an important one. Both Tony and Gunhand have spent much of their lives living inside the sausage factories and have distinctly differing views of their sides of that experience. I try to glean as much as I can from both because I HAVEN'T been in there. Both have a lot to contribute and nuggets to reveal.

I'm a big fan of the TV show Gold Rush. Sometimes they process thousands of tons of material before some awesome nuggets start showing up. Processing the dirt can get boring, tedious, and monotonous, not to mention expensive. But then a pocket of gold starts showing up and everything changes; a major payoff for all.

This thread also tends to process a lot of unproductive dirt at times, but then the nuggets start showing up and everything changes.

We could draw up a long laundry list of things that weren't addressed by the report that was released. But why waste the time? All we really have left to do is to wait for one of two things; for Dodgy Joe to treat us to more flakes of gold, or for another source to reveal some true nuggets.

I'm not putting my money on Joe. Someone else, including those involved with the investigation, MAY come forward with some undeniable facts that will open the scope of this investigation. And the public needs to be diligent in doing all we can, on behalf of the victims and Republic in general, to make that happen.

If we have anyone viewing this thread who has important info who'd like to speak out discretely, I'd encourage them to send a message to any one of us so we can help in any way possible.

You guys are aware that a sitting Congressman from back east swears that he's been given info that indicates ISIS involvement that came up from across the southern border, right? Not saying it's a fact but he's pretty convinced based on what he's been told. That would be a game changer. No proof provided to date.

THAT would constitute a massive nugget emerging from hoards of unproductive dirt. Let's keep mining and see what continues to surface! Closing this thread is a victory for those who'd choose to operate in darkness. Why aid and abet by giving them what they want? Let's continue to be the thorn in the side that prompts action and results. Processing dirt is part of that equation.

You're right Bob, tons of dirt with very few new nuggets. Let's see what it's going to take to strike that next pocket of gold.
 

Ka Lbo

Member
Forum Supporter
IMHO, and acknowledging my opinion is not worth much of anything, retaining zero weight in all reality…I blather on…

Overall, valuable discussion throughout thread. Facts stated and reinforced where necessary. Gaps and potential conflicts of available information highlighted. Yes, discourse regarding LE, prosecutors, etc. arise and thoughts emphasized with some emotion. Big deal!

In this era of managed information sharing, stifling of thoughts, it would be a disservice to lock this thread.

Ya, this is a 2a forum, privately owned with rules to boot. Rules also stifle and out right block great sharing of information, and perspectives on Twitter, FB, Google, MSM, etc.

To me, locking this thread over personal experience and beliefs, ensuing back and forth is a step backwards. Great discussion worth considering all perspectives.

Please let the conversation flow. The positive far far outweighs and perceived negative.

Brad
 
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At the end of the day, all a discussion is a bunch of words. The idea that a person would be "banned" like "rickinvegas" was for using them is pretty ridiculous. Decorum and civility could be enforced with a much gentler hand but the heavy hand of banning a member or shutting down a thread seems to be just another vehicle of petty power. It really comes down to a simple question, do you believe in free speech or not?
 

Tophog

Biker Trailer Trash
Staff member
Moderator
Forum Supporter
IMHO, and acknowledging my opinion is not worth much of anything, retaining zero weight in all reality…I blather on…

Overall, valuable discussion throughout thread. Facts stated and reinforced where necessary. Gaps and potential conflicts of available information highlighted. Yes, discourse regarding LE, prosecutors, etc. arise and thoughts emphasized with some emotion. Big deal!

In this era of managed information sharing, stifling of thoughts, it would be a disservice to lock this thread.

Ya, this is a 2a forum, privately owned with rules to boot. Rules also stifle and out right block great sharing of information, and perspectives on Twitter, FB, Google, MSM, etc.

To me, locking this thread over personal experience and beliefs, ensuing back and forth is a step backwards. Great discussion worth considering all perspectives.

Please let the conversation flow. The positive far far outweighs and perceived negative.

Brad
It has nothing to do with my experience or beliefs. I love a good cat fight, but not . . . THE . . . SAME . . . FIGHT, over and over, all day, every day!

We get it! Lombardo has a lot to answer for. Keep the pressure on him. And it's a great discussion, after filtering out the useless drivel.

If some of you don't get the gist of my post, I can't help you. :frown2:
 

Ron_O

Cave Dweller
It has nothing to do with my experience or beliefs. I love a good cat fight, but not . . . THE . . . SAME . . . FIGHT, over and over, all day, every day!

We get it! Lombardo has a lot to answer for. Keep the pressure on him. And it's a great discussion, after filtering out the useless drivel.

If some of you don't get the gist of my post, I can't help you. :frown2:
Tophog, you asked us to call you out if there's something on our minds, that you're a big boy and can handle it, so I'm going to bring something up that should seriously be handled through private message.

Here it goes.

About a month ago you said you'd like to get together with me, Gunhand, and Tony for coffee, lunch, or some enlightening weed consumption (or something like that, I'm sure GH will join in).

But all of these weeks later, NOTHING! Just because the holidays came and went is really no good excuse, you need to provide a time that you're going to haul your tail over that hill and get down to the valley to mingle.

There. I said it. I'm already a lot calmer. I'll give you another three weeks to get the wheels back on your bicycle but after that no excuses, you'll have to call Uber. Gunhand will pick up the bill. I have his credit card info if you need to borrow it.

To be fair, Tony was a bit distracted due to hosting Ryan for a month so you got a pass.

There you have it. Hope you feel better...

:001_cool:
 

Tophog

Biker Trailer Trash
Staff member
Moderator
Forum Supporter
Tophog, you asked us to call you out if there's something on our minds, that you're a big boy and can handle it, so I'm going to bring something up that should seriously be handled through private message.

Here it goes.

About a month ago you said you'd like to get together with me, Gunhand, and Tony for coffee, lunch, or some enlightening weed consumption (or something like that, I'm sure GH will join in).

But all of these weeks later, NOTHING! Just because the holidays came and went is really no good excuse, you need to provide a time that you're going to haul your tail over that hill and get down to the valley to mingle.

There. I said it. I'm already a lot calmer. I'll give you another three weeks to get the wheels back on your bicycle but after that no excuses, you'll have to call Uber. Gunhand will pick up the bill. I have his credit card info if you need to borrow it.

To be fair, Tony was a bit distracted due to hosting Ryan for a month so you got a pass.

There you have it. Hope you feel better...

:001_cool:
Haha! I've only been over the hump once since then. Last week to take the Warden to a medical appointment. Unfortunately, after the meds they gave her, she just wanted to come back home.

We didn't spend the day in town like we usually do.
 

Ron_O

Cave Dweller
Haha! I've only been over the hump once since then. Last week to take the Warden to a medical appointment. Unfortunately, after the meds they gave her, she just wanted to come back home.

We didn't spend the day in town like we usually do.
OK well this is going to be the last time that I publically comment on this subject.

If I have to I'll throw the rear seat back in the van, play like I'm Uber, do some rounds down in the valley, and drive us all over the hill to the Land of Nye so you all can plan your ambush before we arrive. I'm making a stretch here and assuming you have friends in your area that might back you up.

Because of that we insist on meeting in a PUBLIC place, backs to the wall, us arriving before any of you so we can cover the room before your arrival.

It will of course be subject to @Tony's current state of health and @Gunhand's congested schedule. Then again it'll probably have to be a time when I'm actually in the state itself rather than touring the wild western states while shopping for a SHTF hideaway.
 

Tophog

Biker Trailer Trash
Staff member
Moderator
Forum Supporter
OK well this is going to be the last time that I publically comment on this subject.

If I have to I'll throw the rear seat back in the van, play like I'm Uber, do some rounds down in the valley, and drive us all over the hill to the Land of Nye so you all can plan your ambush before we arrive. I'm making a stretch here and assuming you have friends in your area that might back you up.

Because of that we insist on meeting in a PUBLIC place, backs to the wall, us arriving before any of you so we can cover the room before your arrival.

It will of course be subject to @Tony's current state of health and @Gunhand's congested schedule. Then again it'll probably have to be a time when I'm actually in the state itself rather than touring the wild western states while shopping for a SHTF hideaway.
When things settle down, it would be good to have a meet & greet. We used to do them at Dean's Place, by the Silverton.
 

Ka Lbo

Member
Forum Supporter
It has nothing to do with my experience or beliefs. I love a good cat fight, but not . . . THE . . . SAME . . . FIGHT, over and over, all day, every day!

We get it! Lombardo has a lot to answer for. Keep the pressure on him. And it's a great discussion, after filtering out the useless drivel.

If some of you don't get the gist of my post, I can't help you. :frown2:


Comment "...personal experience and beliefs..." was not referring to anyone specifically, including the possibility of locking the thread. Rather referring to posts that generate seemingly heated back and forth. Those posts are rooted in lifelong experience, beliefs, yada, yada. Free sharing of beliefs with rational. There is value in all of them. Ya, some repetition, OK at times much.

Wanted to delink my thoughts with any perceived personal jabs. Don't buy into that tact much. Overall discourse invaluable, IMO.

Brad
 

Ron_O

Cave Dweller
As it applies to METRO, deception matters, which is why so many question the events of this case.

Is Lombardo purposefully misleading the public on the murder rate because he's up for re-election this year? He's reporting that violent crime is down 10% from last year but didn't count a bunch of murders, nor did he count MB32's victims. Murders have more than DOUBLED since he took office.

Seems to me that this is a continued pattern of deceptive behavior:

http://360daily.net/lvmpd-refusing-to-count-the-58-vegas-mass-shooting-murders-in-2017-crime-stats/
 
It has nothing to do with my experience or beliefs. I love a good cat fight, but not . . . THE . . . SAME . . . FIGHT, over and over, all day, every day!

We get it! Lombardo has a lot to answer for. Keep the pressure on him. And it's a great discussion, after filtering out the useless drivel.

If some of you don't get the gist of my post, I can't help you. :frown2:
But so what though? I'd see more of a problem if a new thread on the same subject were started every day, but this is still the same thread. Nobody is throwing punches here, nobody is making threats or actually harming anyway. Sure, this thread might not be a good example to use in courtesy class, but so what? People want to talk, people want to debate.

I could see locking threads if the same subject keeps coming up in a new thread every day and it was clogging up the board. But this discussion continues in the same thread. Let it run its course, even if it isn't pleasant. Some discussions simply have to be had, unpleasant or otherwise.
 

Tophog

Biker Trailer Trash
Staff member
Moderator
Forum Supporter
But so what though? I'd see more of a problem if a new thread on the same subject were started every day, but this is still the same thread. Nobody is throwing punches here, nobody is making threats or actually harming anyway. Sure, this thread might not be a good example to use in courtesy class, but so what? People want to talk, people want to debate.

I could see locking threads if the same subject keeps coming up in a new thread every day and it was clogging up the board. But this discussion continues in the same thread. Let it run its course, even if it isn't pleasant. Some discussions simply have to be had, unpleasant or otherwise.
So this example of beating a dead horse should exist as an avenue for people who have absolutely nothing new to add can still vent because they have nothing better to do?

And I'm not referring to the subject and relevant points brought up in the thread. Those are actually important. And I'm not against unpleasant discussions, but it's back to relevancy.

As an example, repeatedly questioning someone's viewpoints or credentials, hoping to get a different answer or play 'gotcha', is not just redundant, it's childish. And doesn't add to the relevancy of anything.

But you don't think the same crap every day clogging a single thread would be similar to the same crap clogging a new thread each day?

-

I'll be expecting retorts, possibly worded a little differently each time, since that seems to be your M.O., none of which will actually address my main gripe.

You should go into politics!
 

Tophog

Biker Trailer Trash
Staff member
Moderator
Forum Supporter
As it applies to METRO, deception matters, which is why so many question the events of this case.

Is Lombardo purposefully misleading the public on the murder rate because he's up for re-election this year? He's reporting that violent crime is down 10% from last year but didn't count a bunch of murders, nor did he count MB32's victims. Murders have more than DOUBLED since he took office.

Seems to me that this is a continued pattern of deceptive behavior:

http://360daily.net/lvmpd-refusing-to-count-the-58-vegas-mass-shooting-murders-in-2017-crime-stats/
And another good article on that:

http://nevadajournal.com/2017/01/23/lvmpd-going-rogue-violent-crime-statistics/
 
OK well this is going to be the last time that I publically comment on this subject.

If I have to I'll throw the rear seat back in the van, play like I'm Uber, do some rounds down in the valley, and drive us all over the hill to the Land of Nye so you all can plan your ambush before we arrive. I'm making a stretch here and assuming you have friends in your area that might back you up.

Because of that we insist on meeting in a PUBLIC place, backs to the wall, us arriving before any of you so we can cover the room before your arrival.

It will of course be subject to @Tony's current state of health and @Gunhand's congested schedule. Then again it'll probably have to be a time when I'm actually in the state itself rather than touring the wild western states while shopping for a SHTF hideaway.


I have my health situation under control going on 15 days now. It is the longest period without excruciating pain in over a year and a half. So I am good anytime.

I already talk to Gunhand all the time. I just randomly say “Hello Gunhand” into my phone every now and then. I am sure his buddies get the message to him. Lolol!

I will come to the meeting naked, with Saran Wrap around my arms, torso and junk so there are no perceived “furtive moves” and so it isn’t assumed to be a small derringer. Haha!

Seriously though, I would love to meet anyone I haven’t already met. I just got a very nice handwritten letter from the Fed who was dating my sister and staying with us during the Holidays when Ryan was gone to Montana. You can bet we spent many hours back and forth, but are now friends.

I will never stop trying to bring accountability and honesty to our government. The Fed and I were able to break through some barriers on both sides and I assume the same will happen with anyone I meet who has different life experiences than I.

Looking forward to meeting.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Gunhand

Firearms Instructor
I have my health situation under control going on 15 days now. It is the longest period without excruciating pain in over a year and a half. So I am good anytime.

I already talk to Gunhand all the time. I just randomly say “Hello Gunhand” into my phone every now and then. I am sure his buddies get the message to him. Lolol!

I will come to the meeting naked, with Saran Wrap around my arms, torso and junk so there are no perceived “furtive moves” and so it isn’t assumed to be a small derringer. Haha!

Seriously though, I would love to meet anyone I haven’t already met. I just got a very nice handwritten letter from the Fed who was dating my sister and staying with us during the Holidays when Ryan was gone to Montana. You can bet we spent many hours back and forth, but are now friends.

I will never stop trying to bring accountability and honesty to our government. The Fed and I were able to break through some barriers on both sides and I assume the same will happen with anyone I meet who has different life experiences than I.

Looking forward to meeting.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Tony I will certainly meet up with you soon, but I see a naked man wrapped in Saran Wrap, I'm OUT!!! LOL
 
So this example of beating a dead horse should exist as an avenue for people who have absolutely nothing new to add can still vent because they have nothing better to do?

And I'm not referring to the subject and relevant points brought up in the thread. Those are actually important. And I'm not against unpleasant discussions, but it's back to relevancy.

As an example, repeatedly questioning someone's viewpoints or credentials, hoping to get a different answer or play 'gotcha', is not just redundant, it's childish. And doesn't add to the relevancy of anything.

But you don't think the same crap every day clogging a single thread would be similar to the same crap clogging a new thread each day?

-

I'll be expecting retorts, possibly worded a little differently each time, since that seems to be your M.O., none of which will actually address my main gripe.

You should go into politics!
How do you know I am not already in politics, sir?

I get what you're saying, but when people repeatedly make the same inaccurate statements and assertions, they should expect to be called out on it. If that means the same subject comes up repeatedly, so be it. By shying away from the discussion or argument simply because it is being repeated, you effectively allow someone to spread misinformation, and I happen to believe that affects a lot more people than the two folks who disagree with each other. If someone's understanding of an issue is inaccurate, it is a disservice to allow the spread of that inaccurate information unchecked, as others will read it, believe it and pass it on themselves. Not good.

I am not one to shy away from ANY debate or discussion, regardless of subject matter or pleasantry level, because I believe the only way we're going to get anywhere as a society and indeed as a race is to hash this stuff out. No, the discussions we're having on this forum won't greatly affect the path that humanity takes going forward, but that does not diminish the need for people to sort all of this stuff, so we can at least have a fighting chance.

I just do not understand what the aversion is to the discussion or debate of important issues. Many people seem to just want to have the easy or fun conversations, and people shy away when the going gets tough. I'm sorry, but if we all do that, we'll be invaded by any number of foreign powers that will walk all over us tomorrow, possibly even our own government.

To me, the debates going on in this thread are serious, important debates here. We aren't trying to decide some nonsense like Ford vs. Chevy or Apple vs. Samsung. We're debating issues that affect us all, and I think they're worth debating.
 

Tophog

Biker Trailer Trash
Staff member
Moderator
Forum Supporter
How do you know I am not already in politics, sir?

I get what you're saying, but when people repeatedly make the same inaccurate statements and assertions, they should expect to be called out on it. If that means the same subject comes up repeatedly, so be it. By shying away from the discussion or argument simply because it is being repeated, you effectively allow someone to spread misinformation, and I happen to believe that affects a lot more people than the two folks who disagree with each other. If someone's understanding of an issue is inaccurate, it is a disservice to allow the spread of that inaccurate information unchecked, as others will read it, believe it and pass it on themselves. Not good.

I am not one to shy away from ANY debate or discussion, regardless of subject matter or pleasantry level, because I believe the only way we're going to get anywhere as a society and indeed as a race is to hash this stuff out. No, the discussions we're having on this forum won't greatly affect the path that humanity takes going forward, but that does not diminish the need for people to sort all of this stuff, so we can at least have a fighting chance.

I just do not understand what the aversion is to the discussion or debate of important issues. Many people seem to just want to have the easy or fun conversations, and people shy away when the going gets tough. I'm sorry, but if we all do that, we'll be invaded by any number of foreign powers that will walk all over us tomorrow, possibly even our own government.

To me, the debates going on in this thread are serious, important debates here. We aren't trying to decide some nonsense like Ford vs. Chevy or Apple vs. Samsung. We're debating issues that affect us all, and I think they're worth debating.
Very cohesive and with clarity. Well done. I'm all for what you said, but my point was still missed.

I don't mind the tough conversations. I just think we should disagree as gentlemen, with tact and respect, not continuous remarks which are irrelevant to the conversations.
 

toyhunt

Obsessed Member
How do you know I am not already in politics, sir?

To me, the debates going on in this thread are serious, important debates here. We aren't trying to decide some nonsense like Ford vs. Chevy or Apple vs. Samsung. We're debating issues that affect us all, and I think they're worth debating.
I will take Ford & Samsung every time. No, it may not be serious but it is fun. :smile5: