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Mandalay Bay shooting

Ka Lbo

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http://www.fox5vegas.com/story/37417061/man-who-sold-ammo-to-vegas-shooter-charged


"Man who sold ammo to Vegas shooter charged
Posted: Feb 02, 2018 2:53 PM PST
Updated: Feb 02, 2018 6:14 PM PST

Douglas Haig takes questions from reporters at a news conference Friday, Feb. 2, 2018, in Chandler, Ariz. (AP Photo/Brian Skoloff)
Douglas Haig takes questions from reporters at a news conference Friday, Feb. 2, 2018, in Chandler, Ariz. (AP Photo/Brian Skoloff)
CHANDLER, AZ (AP) -

The Latest on an Arizona man who sold ammunition to the gunman who carried out the deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history (all times local):

5:30 p.m.

Las Vegas police wouldn't say whether armor-piercing ammunition was fired during the deadliest shooting in modern U.S. history after a dealer who sold it to the gunman was charged with manufacturing such bullets.

Officer Larry Hadfield on Friday referred to a preliminary report released this month.

It says some rifle magazines were loaded with various types of bullets, including armor-piercing ammunition and armor-piercing incendiary ammunition.

The report says a "complete breakdown" of the types of ammunition loaded in the guns and the cartridge casings expended will be documented in the final report. It's unclear when that report will be available.

A criminal complaint says Douglas Haig's fingerprints were found on unfired armor-piercing bullets inside the hotel room where Stephen Paddock launched the attack Oct. 1.

Federal officials declined or didn't immediately respond to requests for comment."


Brad
 
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Ka Lbo

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Interesting. If I read article correctly, 58 autopsies released. A few days ago, it seemed the Coroner was continuing to stonewall autopsy release. Autopsies completed 5 October. A few days after the massacre. A few weeks ago we read, not all 58 victims had an autopsy. This needs to be sorted out.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/0...opsy-info-released-gunmans-data-excluded.html
“The autopsy reports of 58 people killed Oct. 1 at a country music show on the Las Vegas Strip were released Wednesday as the Clark County, Nev., coroner’s office complied with a court order.
The agency fought to keep the information confidential, but released it after a public records lawsuit filed by the Associated Press and Las Vegas Review-Journal.
The reports contain information on the location of wounds, time and date of death and when the autopsies were performed, the Las Vegas Review-Journal reported. The coroner redacted the victims’ names from the reports, though officials had previously released them.
The coroner’s office released a report in December ruling each of the deaths a homicide and confirming that each victim died of at least one gunshot wound, with six dying from multiple wounds.
The examinations were completed by Oct. 5, two days after the last victim was pronounced dead. The document ruled that many of the victims had been shot in the head, chest or back.
District Judge Timothy Williams had also ordered the coroner’s office Tuesday to release the autopsy report of gunman Stephen Paddock, though it has yet to be released. Clark County Coroner John Fudenberg expressed that the Paddock autopsy would not be released until it was “finalized,” the Review-Journal reported.
The 64-year-old gunman died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head, with the coroner’s office ruling it a suicide.
The Associated Press contributed to this report.”



Brad
 
So this is what they pull out of their hat as an "accomplice" - a guy who made and sold some bullets without the required government permission slip.

http://documents.latimes.com/criminal-complaint-against-douglas-haig/

Just another example of the disgraceful attempt to deceive a judge into blocking access to information with a red herring. I'm glad the judge didn't fall for it.

From "the memo" to the Finicum shooting - The FBI has proven themselves to be as trustworthy as Hilary Clinton. They should share the same fate she has.
 

MP15Reloader

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So this is what they pull out of their hat as an "accomplice" - a guy who made and sold some bullets without the required government permission slip.

http://documents.latimes.com/criminal-complaint-against-douglas-haig/

Just another example of the disgraceful attempt to deceive a judge into blocking access to information with a red herring. I'm glad the judge didn't fall for it.

From "the memo" to the Finicum shooting - The FBI has proven themselves to be as trustworthy as Hilary Clinton. They should share the same fate she has.
Am i missing something? He said he sold tracers to MB which isnt illegal. I wonder if this guy rolled some m855 and thats the leo attempt at charging someone due to the complete ineptitude of the handling of this investigation and lack of transparency.

Could be a backdoor effort at banning m855 although i guess its possible he got his hands on some actual ap projectiles and loaded them? Not passing the sniff test right now.
 
There are a few articles about the rounds.

API, AP, and other type of penetrators. If you look up the USC in the charging documents, it is pretty broad about who cannot manufacture the ammo.
 
Am i missing something? He said he sold tracers to MB which isnt illegal. I wonder if this guy rolled some m855 and thats the leo attempt at charging someone due to the complete ineptitude of the handling of this investigation and lack of transparency.



Could be a backdoor effort at banning m855 although i guess its possible he got his hands on some actual ap projectiles and loaded them? Not passing the sniff test right now.


Basically he reloaded bullets and sold them without the proper license.

They want Americans to believe that makes him an accomplice to mass murder.


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MP15Reloader

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"The two armor-piercing bullets found in ***douchebags***s hotel room with Haig’s fingerprints had an “incendiary capsule” on their noses, the documents said. A forensic analysis of those two bullets had tool marks consistent with the equipment in Haig’s backyard workshop, according to the complaint."

ahh.. Theyre saying he modified the ammunition im assuming, i can almost guarantee theyre calling m855 armor piercing through all this and maybe this guy modified them to be tracers or as the media will say "incendiary"..

Here we go with the misnomers.
 

Gunhand

Firearms Instructor
My guess he manufactured for commercial sale Armor Piercing Tracer Incendiary rounds without a license to manufacture. His fingerprints and the tool marks from his reloading equipment should be enough evidence to convict him. Under the statute he is looking at a maximum of five years prison, and a fine up to $250,000.00 if convicted.

It's my understanding the armor piercing rounds they are charging him on, are the 7.62X51 /.308 rounds he fired at the airport fuel tanks. The 5.56 mm tracer rounds are not considered armor piercing under the statute.

Since it appears he may have to have a security clearance for his job at Honeywell Aerospace, I doubt he has a previous criminal record. So he may not qualify for the maximum under the sentencing guidelines. Of course the Judge could depart above the guidelines due to the seriousness of the incident, even then he can only go the maximum of five years.
 
Because a man shouldn't be able make and sell the same ammunition the government possesses.......

If men today were half the man Abigail Adams was, the government could never consider sending a man to prison for making ammo that "pleaseth not the king".

There was a time when men who would dare take such a man into custody were considered spies and shameful characters. Now we worship them.

Abigail Adams . Braintree Sepbr. 14, 1774

.........In consequence of the powders being taken from Charlstown, a general alarm spread thro many Towns and was caught pretty soon here. The report took here a fryday, and a Sunday a Soldier was seen lurking about the common. Supposed to be a Spy, but most likely a Deserter. However inteligence of it was communicated to the other parishes, and about 8 o clock a Sunday Evening there pass[ed] by here about 200 Men, preceeded by a horse
cart, and marched down to the powder house from whence they took the powder and carried [it] into the other parish and there secreeted it. I opened the window upon there return. They pass'd without any Noise, not a word among them till they came against this house, when some of them perceiveing me, askd me if I wanted any powder. I replied not since it was in so good hands.
The reason they gave for taking it, was that we had so many Tories here they dare not trust us with it.

They had taken Vinton in their Train, and upon their return they stoped between Cleverlys and Etters, and calld upon him to deliver two Warrents. Upon his producing them, they put it to vote whether they should burn them and it pass'd in the aflirmitive. They then made a circle and burnt them, they then call'd a vote whether they should huzza, but it being Sunday evening it passd in the negative. They call'd upon Vinton to swear that he would never be instrumental in carrying into execution any of these new atcts. They were not satisfied with his answers however they let him rest. A few Days after upon his making some foolish speaches, they assembled to the amount of a and [3?] hundred, swore vengance upon him unless he took a solemn oath. Accordingly, they chose a committee and sent [them] with him to Major Miller to see that he complied, and they waited his return, which proving satisfactory they disperced.
This Town appear as high as you can well immagine, and if necessary would soon be in arms. Not a Tory but hides his head. The church parson thought they were comeing after him, and run up garret they say, an other jumpt out of his window and hid among the corn whilst a third crept under his bord fence, and told his Beads.


https://www.masshist.org/digitaladams/archive/doc?id=L17740914aa

What a sad and pathetic lot we have become.

This is how Abigail ends her letter:

You will burn all these Letters least they should fall from your pocket and thus expose your most affectionate Friend,

Abigail Adams


Yet today, we cheer the NSA for "keeping us safe" and reading our mail.
 

ZilWin

Obsessed Member
Richard Scotti is awesome! Now watch as Law Enforcement commenced to repeatedly break the law by not complying - the same thing they will jail and kill is for doing.


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They'll release only enough to make it look like they are complying. Who's going to be able to audit them to be sure they release ALL of it? How will we ever know if it all gets released?
 
And here we are, 6 months later and we know just about the same amount we did just days after the shooting. It certainly has fallen from the front page and I have to believe the sheriff and FBI are totally fine with that. Still so many questions and things that just don't add up.
 

Gunhand

Firearms Instructor
Take the 'Official' story, balance it with Root's suspicions, and you may find something in the middle that makes sense!
Top I agree to a point. What still cracks me up about Wayne Root, is he still hangs on the the idea that Paddock was a gun runner, and this was a deal that went bad, so they did a mass shooting to cover it up.

The reason I find that so outlandish is very simple. Why would anyone, especially a "government entity" even think about doing a weapons deal in a hotel with thousands of surveillance cameras? Anyone with any common or street sense would NEVER do a deal there.

During my career I did two undercover operations where I posed as an illegal weapons dealer. Both times the prospective buyers (one Cartel member, one Islamic terrorist) did not want to meet anywhere near a potential surveillance camera. Both meetings were done in very remote areas. (And yes, they both went to prison.)

Real bad guys don't like to do business in hotels because nearly every where has surveillance cameras. So it just strikes me as ridiculous that a covert operation as Wayne Root offers as a motive, is so lacking common sense.

The newly released video also dispels Root's conjecture that Paddock couldn't have possibly been strong enough to get all the weapons and ammunition to his room, so he had to have a co-conspirator. Of course he did, the bellman helped him take the bags to his room. But that does not make the bellman a co-conspirator, he was just doing his job assisting a high roller guest to his rooms with a lot of bags. Something bellman do every day in Las Vegas.

You are right somewhere in the middle is the real story, but I think it's closer to the official version than Wayne root's.