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Mandalay Bay shooting

Tophog

Biker Trailer Trash
Staff member
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Forum Supporter
Top I agree to a point. What still cracks me up about Wayne Root, is he still hangs on the the idea that Paddock was a gun runner, and this was a deal that went bad, so they did a mass shooting to cover it up.

The reason I find that so outlandish is very simple. Why would anyone, especially a "government entity" even think about doing a weapons deal in a hotel with thousands of surveillance cameras? Anyone with any common or street sense would NEVER do a deal there.

During my career I did two undercover operations where I posed as an illegal weapons dealer. Both times the prospective buyers (one Cartel member, one Islamic terrorist) did not want to meet anywhere near a potential surveillance camera. Both meetings were done in very remote areas. (And yes, they both went to prison.)

Real bad guys don't like to do business in hotels because nearly every where has surveillance cameras. So it just strikes me as ridiculous that a covert operation as Wayne Root offers as a motive, is so lacking common sense.

The newly released video also dispels Root's conjecture that Paddock couldn't have possibly been strong enough to get all the weapons and ammunition to his room, so he had to have a co-conspirator. Of course he did, the bellman helped him take the bags to his room. But that does not make the bellman a co-conspirator, he was just doing his job assisting a high roller guest to his rooms with a lot of bags. Something bellman do every day in Las Vegas.

You are right somewhere in the middle is the real story, but I think it's closer to the official version than Wayne root's.
Yeah, I never doubted that he was capable of getting that 'arsenal' to his room.

He had 5 or 6 days to do it. One duffel bag and many trips would have done it.

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As far as criminals not wanting to be on hotel surveillance, I'm sure you're right. But then you have idiots like O. J. Simpson! :smile5:
 

Gunhand

Firearms Instructor
Unless they already lived there.
Then I think of the old saying "Never S#*T where you live" would kick in.

Even the outlandish "Saudi connection" only has/had the top floors. You still had to walk through the hotel, and as this video proves, you are watched pretty much everywhere in the hotel.
 
Kind of surprising that nothing has been posted to this thread in over a month given all the news that’s been happening lately with the court orders etc. the first thing I want to see released by Lombardo is an INVENTORY of what WILL be released. Otherwise, he is going to keep stonewalling.
 

Harley

Obsessed Member
Forum Supporter
Kind of surprising that nothing has been posted to this thread in over a month given all the news that’s been happening lately with the court orders etc. the first thing I want to see released by Lombardo is an INVENTORY of what WILL be released. Otherwise, he is going to keep stonewalling.

Las Vegas Metro police said they will begin to release records related to the 1 October investigation starting Wednesday.
Sheriff Joseph Lombardo said in a press conference Tuesday that the department will release documents to comply with a court order. The Nevada Supreme Court denied a motion to stay the release of records related to the shooting.
Videos from two officers, who had their body cameras on when they entered the suspect's hotel room, will be released first, Lombardo said. The release of additional videos, 911 records, and documents will be provided on a regular, “rolling” basis.
Lombardo cautioned on making conclusions on a single release. He said the facts on the initial information provided to the public has not changed. The department will release a comprehensive report in the future. The report will have additional details on the content that was ordered to be released.

He expected more documents to be released in the next two weeks. The department said they are working on a method to distribute the content.
Lombardo said there are reasons why the department couldn’t release the records before. He cited the ongoing investigation, manpower, concerns over the victims and their families and the cost. Adding, it will cost the department and public “several hundred thousand dollars in manpower, time and equipment.
“At no point was the LVMPD trying to be uncooperative with the media or the public,” Lombardo said.
Metro employees have been pulled from other assignments and will have to relive the incidents from 1 October, Lombardo said. The work from other departments will be "slowed."
“We as a department are trying to complete the investigation and heal as a community,” Lombardo said.
Lombardo said they are operating in the same manner as in the past, by releasing important facts and making sure the public is not in danger.
“I want the community to know the release of the videos, 911, and documents will have a significant impact on the victims of this tragedy, Lombardo said. “We believe the release of the graphic footage will further traumatize a wounded community, for that we apologize.”
Lombardo said victims and family members should know the video from the concert is disturbing and graphic.
“We have always tried to protect the victims,” Lombardo said. Adding, the department wanted to avoid further victimization.
The Vegas Strong Resiliency Center remains open, Lombardo said as a reminder. The center offers counseling and other resources for victims and their families.
 

Ron_O

Cave Dweller
Gotta wonder what Shifty Joe is trying to hide by pushing back against the media and courts in stalling with the records release the way he has.

The Sun has posted an interesting article regarding new evidence released.

One witness said MB32 had complained about Waco, government overreach, and gun control only a few days before his slaughter.

https://lasvegassun.com/news/2018/may/16/police-to-release-witness-accounts-of-strip-shooti/

Police and the FBI refused to answer questions from The Associated Press about the account from the man who said he met with Paddock outside a Las Vegas sporting goods store after posting an online ad to sell schematics to convert semi-automatic guns to fire automatically.

The man said Paddock became upset and launched into a tirade about gun control when the man rejected an offer of $500 apiece to modify semi-automatic guns to fire automatically.
The RJ posts its own article in response to the document dump:

https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/shootings/witness-reports-give-insight-into-las-vegas-shooting/
 
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Ron_O

Cave Dweller
The OAN Network is doing an investigative special on the Mandalay shooting. Asking a lot of the same questions that we did. Interesting facts. The show is titled 'OAN Investigates Presents'. I just picked it up with ten minutes to go. Will try to record a repeat show if it's available.

OAN is channel 347 on DirecTV.

OK just checked for other showings. Will be on again at 2:30 PM today (Saturday) and 11:30 AM and 2:30 PM on Sunday. Worth watching!! Set your DVR's.
 

Ron_O

Cave Dweller
I watched the entire version of the show and it had some interesting insights. More unanswered questions however.

One of the theories they capped on, based on a Congressional report on the event, was that when MB32 was at the Ogden near the convention center a few weeks earlier he was there to PLAN the Mandalay event with co-conspirators. However as I recall that Ogden actually overlooks the large area akin to the convention center where they hold a lot of the outdoor events. It's possible that he was stalking another outdoor event to target at that time. We were down there for SEMA and that perch was much better than anything that Mandalay offered the Route 91 festival.

UPDATE: Just checked my SEMA pics and the building I was thinking of was the Marriot. The Ogden appears to be a long ways off and doesn't provide the same vantage point that the Mandalay does over nearby venues.

But the theory was that he used that stay to meet with others who helped him plan Mandalay, otherwise he could have just done this from home. Maybe yes, maybe no.

They said that MB32 bought over 50 rifles after Trump was elected, that he hated Trump, and that the Route 91 attendees were assumed to be Trump supporters. They questioned Why TF he'd need so many guns if he were acting alone, that a few guns with lots of mags would have made much more practical and tactical sense.

But along those lines, a possible second shooter, he outlined some aha moments. There was some crackerjack from Australia named Steve Hodge if I remember correctly. I'll get back to him. But the question was why there were a second set of gloves in the adjoining room 134 when MB32 had his own gloves on. They said that MB32 was left handed yet shot himself with his right hand. The theory was that he had the one rifle which came to rest above his legs in his left hand when he was shot, which is why it dropped where it did.

But that's assuming that the room was static even after LEO stormed the room. LEO said they kicked chairs around when clearing the room. Seems like they could have kicked that rifle over MB32's legs at the same time.

But the show outlined that MB32's death bullet didn't travel through the roof of his mouth (eating the gun) but rather took out some front teeth as though he was shot from the front, THROUGH the teeth. I guess that would depend on whether the teeth were blown in or out. Recoil alone could do a job on the teeth. Buy why his right hand if he was left handed, and why be holding onto a rifle if he was going to kill himself? And why stop shooting so suddenly to begin with, when there were so many potential victims still remaining?

So the theory is that the second shooter took MB32 out, then fled to room 134, locked the door, threw his gloves on the bed, and watched the video monitor to track LEO actions. Once LEO breeched room 135 he was able to see the hallway was clear and slip out of the room (but wasn't that door locked as well, having been so for over an hour?). He could have then darted into an adjoining room or down the hall or stairwell, pretending to be another terrified guest who was fleeing.

But along those lines there's no reason to assume that he didn't have his OWN SWAT gear which would have allowed him to blend into the other LEO if they were still out in the hall. No one's brought that up as far as I know. They did say that there were tactical vests in the rooms after they breeched.

This is based on the facts of room 134 being locked from the inside, the monitors being in that room to watch the hallway, the second pair of gloves on the bed, the murder of MB32, and so on. But this guy from Australia made some Facebook posts and did some interviews immediately after the shooting and his statements didn't make any sense unless he had inside information. Was there DNA inside that second set of gloves? Did they swab the Aussie?

He said that he was staying in room 134 directly adjacent to MB32's room (WTF?). He said that he knew there was only one shooter. He said MB32 had a specialized hammer to bust out the windows. He said a security guard (not a cop) was shot and possibly killed in the hallway. He said something about 100 round mags. And these posts and statements were all BEFORE any of this had been made public, and this guy supposedly had no way to monitor the LEO airwaves.

He also stated that he'd never made it back to his room, that he hit the hallway from the elevator and some woman was screaming for him to flee back down and they both hit the elevator and down they went. The theory is that this is a cover story because the Aussie didn't know if security cameras would be tracking his movements or not. He was indeed a registered guest on the 32nd floor, but at the other end of the hallway.

They also outlined that there was no reason to use the second room as a shooting platform because southeastern windows in room 135 covered the exact same areas. No tactical advantage.

I also heard a report last week that the LEO breeching the room were instructed to turn OFF their body cams before breech. True? WTF? Why would they do that? Seems like only one of the guys had his turned on, based on the video released by Metro.

So was this Aussie culpable and part of the scheme? The details of his accounts are indeed questionable and do raise some more questions. His live interviews are shown in the report, as well as his written posts. Worth watching again, I saved the show on my DVR.

There may have been more questions raised but those are what come off of the top of my head.
 
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Ron_O

Cave Dweller
Pretty damning of both Metro and MGM/Mandalay. Now we have proof of why the stalling of the release of evidence. And we know why MGM will be settling the litigation long before anything gets to trial. Dodgy Joe has clearly been running cover for MGM (and his own units).

The text shows that Metro/Mandalay knew exactly where the shooter was before they went upstairs. It also shows that they had plenty of time to engage MB32 BEFORE the shooting ceased. In other words, LIVES WOULD HAVE BEEN SAVED had they gone directly to the room. How would you like to be the families of those deceased victims who succumbed to the latter rounds?

The follow-up videos on the RJ site were equally as troubling and moving. Check out the longer one that covers 'Metro under fire' (or similar title). Lots of tough stuff to see there. Victims everywhere, officer shot, and more. The conversation of the Metro LEO taking his shot partner to the hospital is hilarious as he's chatting up his buddy to keep him alert. "How many girlfriends do you have?"
 

Ron_O

Cave Dweller
MGM has been trying to get the lawsuit tossed out of court. In the process it's been discovered that Mandalay had a similar incident, this time with a felon that had rifles and handguns in his room overlooking the Strip. MGM has been arguing that they couldn't have anticipated anyone ever having rifles in a room that presented any type of danger to occupants on the Strip. But records show that reportedly this felon's bolt action scoped rifle was pointing at the Strip when they busted him.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime...y-bay-room-3-years-before-las-vegas-shooting/
 
Liberalism at its finest. Displacing blame and looking for a payout.

That comparison is very weak. The guy provided a confession contradicting any likelihood of shooting people on the strip. But, hey, who cares, right?