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MOST ACCURATE SINGLE-STAGE PRESSES





LongRange

Obsessed Member
Forum Supporter
#21
I was looking at the K&M arbor presses; is knowing the seating force important? My assumption would be to replicate lever-pull / force placed onto the stem makes for better consistency? If so, maybe I should consider arbor press with a gauge. My experience with bullet swaging has shown me how a difference in press handle pull DOES affect the outcome (examples: lead swage core weight can be slightly manipulated by duration and force of handle pull, so can the final jacketed bullet diameter result in slightly under or over). The PSI exerted on a swaging die is significantly more than what I expect it is on an inline seater die.

Concerning my ammunition. I do weigh my brass and batch. Also, I uniform primer pockets and use bench-rest primers. I looked into, but never did get into measuring and cutting neck thickness. Concerning rifles, yes to custom barrels which included the bolt when built. Other than high-end after-market triggers, no to attempting to measure firing pin movements or lug contact. I do not use a bench-rest nor am I shooting much with a bolt-action. I have been thinking about getting a dedicated bolt-action ar upper with no gas port in the barrel; I may consider using neck sized ammunition specific to that actual chamber.
like i said when loading precision/accurate ammo yes everything matters because your stacking tolerances so the hydro gauge will tell you the seating force of the bullet you can not tell from the feel in the press handle....just for numbers if one bullet seats at 50lbs and the next at 75lbs then most likely the neck is tighter on round #2 which will cause a higher pressure and in turn a higher velocity...how much does this REALLY matter?this depends on where you are in your node...again its all about stacking tolerances and when you add all these tolerances up it makes a difference....again this hole is deep how far down you want to go is up to you.

i can tell you this i shot out 1 300 win mag barrel and almost 2(lets call it 1.5) 260rem barrels testing 99% of this stuff one step at a time to see the effects...there was not really ONE thing that made a huge difference but the things that made the biggest differences in no particular order were/are....

neck tension...to much or to little will cause high ESs
primer seating...same as above
charge weight...not as bad but same as above...i can not confirm personally but the pro BR guys say each kernel of most stick powders is 2FPS and most stick powders are 0.02 grains
internal case capacity...this is a an important one and same as above....but if you run quality brass not such an issue

i got to the point that i hated loading so much(loved it at first)i quit shooting for about 2 months because loading turned into a second job and still loading is not high on my like to do list i do it because its a necessary evil.

the thing is a factory rifle will never be able to take full advantage of all the brass prep nor will a custom action with a prefit barrel put on at home...so is it really worth all the extra work unless you own a $20,000 dollar BR rifle? in my opinion no...unless you just really like to tinker or have a lotta time on your hands.
 
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usmcnye

Aim Small Miss Small
#22
Thank you for the advice; it seems to me that if one would use inline dies (Sinclair/Wilson), then one should have an arbor press that measures seating force. It does not seem to me that the cost to go with inline dies is too severe. I paid around $100 for each of my RCBS Gold Match seater dies (I like the drop window and better alignment potential than typical finger placement).

One last question: what manual do you consider best for precision reloading (not looking for load data)? I have been trying to get my hands on a copy of the Precision Shooting Reloading Guide Spiral-bound, December 1, 1998, by Dave Brennan (very pricey!).

I like reloading when it is completed, not so much when it is work in progress.
 
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LongRange

Obsessed Member
Forum Supporter
#23
what ever bullet your going to shoot is the manual you should start with...as far as an all round manual lee 9th edition...i also liked the nosler manual.
 

usmcnye

Aim Small Miss Small
#24
what ever bullet your going to shoot is the manual you should start with...as far as an all round manual lee 9th edition...i also liked the nosler manual.
I must not have made myself clear; do you have a recommendation for a manual type of book that goes into detail about advanced precision reloading techniques and procedures. I have nearly every ammunition makers' reloading manual. It is my understanding that Dave Brennan compiled this manual, which includes multiple essays and articles, to include information from Sinclair. I have read, that this manual does not have load data. Current cost on amazon (cannot find alternate retailer availability) for a used copy is nearly $500.

"Precision Shooting Reloading Guide
Edited by Dave Brennan
This handy reference guide contains scores of useful tips from many of the top shooters in the nation. However, this is NOT a load manual. Rather, it explains the techniques for precision reloading, and offers advice on how to get the “Nth” degree of accuracy from your handloads. Each chapter is authored by a different expert, and covers a specific topic. Chapters include: Reloading for Extreme Accuracy, Highpower (Bolt Guns), Highpower (Gas Guns), Benchrest, Magnums, Wildcats, Cast Bullets, and working up an accuracy load."


Shooters Library-best Books from accurateshooter.com has a short list of recommended books(see link below).

https://www.accurateshooter.com/book-dvd-reviews/book-review-page/
 
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DDRanch

uber n00b
Forum Supporter
2019 Supporter
#25
Forster Coax here for my reach out and touch them loads. I use a RCBS Rock Chucker for brass prep. Plinking, blasting and pistol ammo on either 550 or 650 Dillons.
 

LongRange

Obsessed Member
Forum Supporter
#26
I must not have made myself clear; do you have a recommendation for a manual type of book that goes into detail about advanced precision reloading techniques and procedures. I have nearly every ammunition makers' reloading manual. It is my understanding that Dave Brennan compiled this manual, which includes multiple essays and articles, to include information from Sinclair. I have read, that this manual does not have load data. Current cost on amazon (cannot find alternate retailer availability) for a used copy is nearly $500.

"Precision Shooting Reloading Guide
Edited by Dave Brennan
This handy reference guide contains scores of useful tips from many of the top shooters in the nation. However, this is NOT a load manual. Rather, it explains the techniques for precision reloading, and offers advice on how to get the “Nth” degree of accuracy from your handloads. Each chapter is authored by a different expert, and covers a specific topic. Chapters include: Reloading for Extreme Accuracy, Highpower (Bolt Guns), Highpower (Gas Guns), Benchrest, Magnums, Wildcats, Cast Bullets, and working up an accuracy load."


Shooters Library-best Books from accurateshooter.com has a short list of recommended books(see link below).

https://www.accurateshooter.com/book-dvd-reviews/book-review-page/
First thank you for your service something I should have said before now!

I did miss understand....so no don’t have a favorite loading manual...as a matter of fact I’ve never even looked at the type of book you are asking about and honestly(and not being a dick)I’d never pay $500 bucks to read about how someone else loads or how they think it should be done....there’s a ton of great info free online like on accurate shooter you just have to weed through the BS.

Again I’m not being an a$$ I’m just being straight Reloading is not a magical mystical thing and building accurate ammo is not hard...you do not need to spend that kind of money on someone’s book that money will be better spent on equipment or components and trigger time at the range.
 

usmcnye

Aim Small Miss Small
#27
I have no plans on spending that type of money on the book; I am still trying to find someone with it and borrow it (willing to pay for short-term borrow) For those of us that have not delved into bench-rest like shooting where the intricacies of neck tension, etc are painstakingly developed to optimize a load, I simply was seeking an advanced reloading manual describing the "how to" aspects. I have been reloading for over thirty years; took many long breaks from actively reloading, during my Marine Corps career. Some of my equipment has been around the world, a time, two or three (mostly remaining packed in boxes). My shooting focus is maximum accuracy (NO BENCH REST). I still learn nearly every day on how to make improvements. I think I have achieved high quality ammunition with traditional press/dies based upon my shot groups. The next step for me will be the inline dies / arbor press. Then maybe (or maybe not) get into more advanced case prep, such as neck reaming. One goal of mine, from before the corps, was to make jacketed bullets; I have achieved that since departing active service. Still so much more to learn and do. I ordered Top-Grade Ammo by Glen Zediker; this is a newer version (2016) of a book on the accurate shooter book list (cost $36). I am hoping, but not sure, it will have some advanced reloading techniques.
 
#29
Found that book usmcnye mentioned on the link he listed for $22.95. https://www.accurateshooter.com/book-dvd-reviews/book-review-page/


Precision Shooting Reloading Guide
Edited by Dave Brennan
Price: $22.95 (Spiral Bound Softcover, 284 pages)

This handy reference guide contains scores of useful tips from many of the top shooters in the nation. However, this is NOT a load manual. Rather, it explains the techniques for precision reloading, and offers advice on how to get the “Nth” degree of accuracy from your handloads. Each chapter is authored by a different expert, and covers a specific topic. Chapters include: Reloading for Extreme Accuracy, Highpower (Bolt Guns), Highpower (Gas Guns), Benchrest, Magnums, Wildcats, Cast Bullets, and working up an accuracy load.
Readers have praised this compact (5.5″ x 8.5″) reference:
“I’ve been reloading for many many years, and have read literally dozens of books on the topic. This book still managed to contain pearls of wisdom I’d never heard before. As a result, I’m shooting better groups, and that’s what it is all about.” –T. Pratt.
“If you hand load because you want accuracy, repeatability, and long life from your brass, this book is a must-have.” –GMB (NH).
“I refer to this as my handloading bible now. Great detail, informative articles, and fantastic tips written by knowledgeable shooters, handloaders and benchrest shooters.” S. Smith (New Zealand)
 

usmcnye

Aim Small Miss Small
#30
Unfortunately, the Precision Shooting Reloading Guide is not for sale on accurateshooter.com; yes, the price is listed as $22.95 (no way to order it). Midway USA used to have this same book for a similar price, no longer available. Try and find an actual retailer that you can order it (you cannot). I found only two sellers, prices are around $500.

Update: I received and have started to read, Top-Grade Ammo by Glen Zediker. This is an outstanding book well worth the money. His focus is on handloading for AR / autoloader rifles. He details and explains not only issues related to the AR, but also goes into bolt-action bench-rest techniques; the contrast is very informative. If you want to learn why and how to accurately setup your sizing die in relation to headspace thru measurement, then this is the book for you. Outstanding details and insights, I have learned a lot. Interesting to learn that Lapua and Norma brass are very soft alloys, great for bench-rest shooters, not so much for ARs. If one wants to start the process of learning more advanced handloading, this is the book for you. It goes way beyond simply setting up your dies. So much better than trying to shift thru hundreds of youtube videos and thousands of internet recommendations.

So far, I have decided to go with a Forster Full-Length sizing die and get a primer flash hole reamer. It does not look like it will be beneficial for me to invest in a case annealer. Still not decided on a new single stage press or turret type. I am strongly considering getting an arbor press with Wilson inline dies. Learned from the book about a company (Harrel precision reloading presses); they have an single stage and inline die combination press and a great turret press too.
 
#31
Unfortunately, the Precision Shooting Reloading Guide is not for sale on accurateshooter.com; yes, the price is listed as $22.95 (no way to order it). Midway USA used to have this same book for a similar price, no longer available. Try and find an actual retailer that you can order it (you cannot). I found only two sellers, prices are around $500.

Update: I received and have started to read, Top-Grade Ammo by Glen Zediker. This is an outstanding book well worth the money. His focus is on handloading for AR / autoloader rifles. He details and explains not only issues related to the AR, but also goes into bolt-action bench-rest techniques; the contrast is very informative. If you want to learn why and how to accurately setup your sizing die in relation to headspace thru measurement, then this is the book for you. Outstanding details and insights, I have learned a lot. Interesting to learn that Lapua and Norma brass are very soft alloys, great for bench-rest shooters, not so much for ARs. If one wants to start the process of learning more advanced handloading, this is the book for you. It goes way beyond simply setting up your dies. So much better than trying to shift thru hundreds of youtube videos and thousands of internet recommendations.

So far, I have decided to go with a Forster Full-Length sizing die and get a primer flash hole reamer. It does not look like it will be beneficial for me to invest in a case annealer. Still not decided on a new single stage press or turret type. I am strongly considering getting an arbor press with Wilson inline dies. Learned from the book about a company (Harrel precision reloading presses); they have an single stage and inline die combination press and a great turret press too.
That stinks. It sounded like a good addition to my reloading library as well. I will check out the Zediker book. Sounds useful. Someday I have to get started. I have most of the equipment needed. I have a Rock Chucker and Forster single stage presses and a 650 XL set up for 308 but haven’t loaded a round yet. I need to find someone to help me get this started when I have some free time.
 

usmcnye

Aim Small Miss Small
#32
Having good equipment is very important; equally important is knowledge / training. I am reading Zediker's book cover to cover, then will probably go back to certain sections again and again. For someone new and someone who has been reloading a while, this book is outstanding. Also have gained some golden nuggets about optimizing an AR that I have not considered before (for example, tuning ejector spring).
 

usmcnye

Aim Small Miss Small
#33
For those that do not have a concentricity gauge; you might want to think about getting one. Just received a new Sinclair unit (#749-007-271). I did sampling measurements on case neck and on bullet (ogive area). This tool enables discovery of best rounds and rounds that jump out as exceeding out of roundness. I was very surprised to see that Lapua brass (as a sample average) was between .003 to .004 on the case neck. Some ( a few) of my various once fired brass (multiple manufacturers) that I worked, had the smallest neck measurements (average .0015). I do not ever consider that to be my good stuff, but...

I measured bullets on the (ogive area). Very clear that my personally made (swaged 77 grain Open-Tip Rebated Boat Tail) bullets on average showed far lesser measurement readings than compared to Sierra 77 grain MatchKing bullets. My best bullet measurements (Swaged OT-RBT or Sierra MK) were .0015. To see how some non-match factory produced ammunition (Winchester, PMC & Olympic) did on the gauge; I could only find a few that the needle did not wildly move (nothing even remotely close to .004).

I now need to measure ALL my rounds and BATCH them (yes, you can find the best potential rounds with the smallest measurements thru the use of this gauge). My next step will be to use my newly arrived Hornady Lock-N-Load Headspace Comparator Kit to accurately measure headspace which will enable me to accurately set and adjust my new Forster Full Length Sizing die. I had previously only used a LE Wilson Headspace gauge, set my existing sizing die to the lower end of that gauge. Another small issue I plan to incorporate, is to remove my press ram shell-holder retaining clip and replace with a rubber o-ring (concept is to make the shell-holder float). To recap, one can use a concentricity gauge to measure your ammunition to select the best and worst. Looks like I will eventually get a dial indicator measurement tool to measure neck wall thickness and then a high quality neck turning tool kit (not overly pleased with Lapua brass, need to work on the worst cases that are in excess of .004).
 
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