question use of force in a crowd

Makulit

Very Active Member
#1
so my wife and I were shopping in a new little Filipino grocery near our house, and its packed because it's new. While standing there waiting on her I was looking around doing the typical situational review.

But I was wondering, if I'm standing there and somebody comes in threatening every one waving a knife or firearm, and demands all the money etc etc. Do I have to wait till he threatens me directly or swings his firearm/Knife at me, for me to put him down? I'm not looking for the opportunity. I've read lots on people(sheep dogs) that say they would go hunting for the perp. I'm not so much interested in being a hero, my main goal at that moment is getting my family and friends out of harm. In most grocery's, the store is so big, it'd be smarter to grab your family and excape out the back or something. But this place is just small enough you can see most all of it, and every time we've been there, there's 50+ people shopping there, so a quick escape out the back isn't going to happen.


Reason I ask, is maybe an hour after we left, somebody did rob the business right next to this little grocery(a smoke shop). So I figured i'd ask for guidence, especially given how quickly this state is swinging left.
 

JimBianchi

Daddy
Forum Supporter
#2
Unless me or my loved ones were directly threaten I would not engage.

That being said, you may defend the life of others if the threat in eminent. ( I have defended others with my bulk and fists, never with a gun)

You are liable for every piece of lead that exits the gun. The minute the bullets leave the barrel someone will sue you. Guaranteed. Regardless of who is hit or not hit.

Be safe and keep your head on a swivel.
 
#3
More importantly, where is this new store?😬. My wife is Filipino and I'm not a fan of the 2 near us (one is too expensive and the other has horrible quality/a lot of expired products).

I've thought about your question and thought what would I do. If it's a chaotic scenario, I would be fearful of hitting an innocent bystander. If I had a way out for myself and/or family, I would get us out first. If I had no way out without engaging with the attacker, well then I have no other choice. There's nothing wrong with running away.
 

28kfps

Very Active Member
#4
Unless me or my loved ones were directly threaten I would not engage.

That being said, you may defend the life of others if the threat in eminent. ( I have defended others with my bulk and fists, never with a gun)

You are liable for every piece of lead that exits the gun. The minute the bullets leave the barrel someone will sue you. Guaranteed. Regardless of who is hit or not hit.

Be safe and keep your head on a swivel.
While I respect your background and knowledge however guaranteed to be sued? Not true, though maybe likely many instances in the past of people firing in defense and on one was sued.
 

terdog

uber Member
#5
^^^^^^

In this day and age, you have to assume that there will be some civil court time in your future.

If nothing else, you'll be out some large coin just to defend yourself. And the burden of proof ain't the same as in Criminal Court.
 

garand_guy

Obsessed Member
#6
While I respect your background and knowledge however guaranteed to be sued? Not true, though maybe likely many instances in the past of people firing in defense and on one was sued.
You always have to consider the worst case scenario. The reason police shoot "so much" is partially because they know they don't have to take chances. They will receive the benefit of the doubt and have legal defense up the wazoo. You don't. I wouldn't say be as paranoid as the average Massad Ayoob book, but why pull the trigger when you don't have to?

But as always, your conscience and right/wrong is the ultimate arbiter of when and how to act. Could you live with the consequences of not pulling the trigger?

NRS 193.230 allows you to offer lawful resistance, including justifiable homicide, on behalf of others.
 

jfrey123

I aim to misbehave...
Staff member
Moderator
Forum Supporter
#7
NRS 193.230 allows you to offer lawful resistance, including justifiable homicide, on behalf of others.
Beat me to it with a NRS reference. Additionally, NRS 200.120 under justifiable homicide allows for the defense of a person. https://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-200.html#NRS200Sec120

A reminder attached under NRS 200.130, a simple "bare fear" is not sufficient reason for killing another human being. Worth a read: https://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-200.html#NRS200Sec130


In short, if a reasonable person has reason to believe someone is about to inflict grave bodily harm or death to others, they are justified to act. Armed robbery is a crime of violence, and such action should be justifiable. IANAL.
 

terdog

uber Member
#8
Great info. Thanks guys.

But, thats literally only the half of it. As we all know, you can be totally in the right but still have to defend yourself in Civil Court, spending tens of thousands of $$$.
 

Makulit

Very Active Member
#9
Thanks for the responses.
I know whether I'm defending myself in my own home, or at a store protecting my family from a robber! I'll probably get sewed by the perps sister or cousin or some other family member that wasn't there, hasn't seen them in 6 months, but swears they were an angel; just so that sister/cousin can try and get money they haven't earned(and I don't have)
I was more concerned about the police laws, jail, felony, stuff that would get me taken from my family, put in jail, and loosing rights, stuff like that. Again I'm not out to hunt them' it's just this location, seemed to present the possibility of a new situation for me. There wouldn't be to many places to hind if something had gone down(not afraid or too proud to hide or run), and probably too far away to reach with my fists or hands. Again I'm not a wanna be batman, out looking to prove myself against a perp. In my opinion ego should be taken off when you strap on your firearm. But I wanted to be sure if I had to protect my family, WHEN would be legal in the eyes of the police/jury. Would I have wait for him to point the his firearm or knife at me or my wife, before I shoot. Or would the verbal threats be enough, considering he's presenting a weapon?
 

Makulit

Very Active Member
#10
More importantly, where is this new store?��. My wife is Filipino and I'm not a fan of the 2 near us (one is too expensive and the other has horrible quality/a lot of expired products).
New island pacific on Silverado ranch and Bermuda. Not complete yet, bakery is still under construction. But the prices seem ok. Quail egg were 10 for $1.20. Seafood City charges almost $2. Seafood City still has better vegetable selection. But it's a much closer bakery were hoping for.
 
#11
New island pacific on Silverado ranch and Bermuda. Not complete yet, bakery is still under construction. But the prices seem ok. Quail egg were 10 for $1.20. Seafood City charges almost $2. Seafood City still has better vegetable selection. But it's a much closer bakery were hoping for.
Awesome! I live 5 minutes from there.
 

icode

Obsessed Member
#13
I apologize but I've looked and looked and cannot find a reference; I thought we got a law passed last Session to immune the shooter in a self defense shooting from civil liability???