SBR vs. Pistols

Kinoons

Obsessed Member
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#21
I have three AR pistols in 5.56, 300 Blackout and 9 metric.

I also have a 10.5" 5.56 SBR that requires 3 tax stamps for the receiver, barrel and can.

We rarely shoot the SBR but the 5.56 and 9 metric go out almost every weekend into the high desert
In confused, a can takes a stamp, a lower receiver takes a stamp. A barreled upper alone isn’t an NFA item and does not require a stamp.
 

MAC702

LEGEN...wait for it... DARY!
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#22
...I also have a 10.5" 5.56 SBR that requires 3 tax stamps for the receiver, barrel and can...
For clarification, wouldn't it be the barrel OR receiver that need be registered? You can have both registered, and that would allow you to put that registered barrel on a different unregistered receiver and have two legal SBR's, right?
 
#23
Has anyone, ever, been detained, cited, arrested, prosecuted, or convicted for taking their SBR across state lines without "permission?" I've never filed that paperwork and never will.
As far as I know, no... The issue is that it's not a state issue for enforcement. It's the Feds... Uncle Fudd sheriff deputy can hassle you if he wants but truth be told it's not his place. I forgot where the memo is, or if it's even still good. But I remember for quite some time only ATF employees or appointees (they use ALOT of subcontractors) are allowed to inquire into the paperwork because it's a tax issue, not so much a gun issue. LEO can look and check you, make sure you're transporting the firearm legally, you got a clean record etc. Everything else is really none of their concern. I've only heard of 1 person ever getting a LEO hassling about paperwork (and the guy had a laminated photo copy and the LEO was oblivious to what he was looking at). Most guys see a pretty normal dressed middle aged man shooting a machinegun or SBR they just assume it's all legit.

Regardless, when it comes to the NFA I'd steer on the side of caution, always.
 

MAC702

LEGEN...wait for it... DARY!
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#24
I agree with most of that, especially that it's a tax issue, not a gun issue. ATF used to be Dept of the TREASURY.

That said, many states, including Nevada, have state statutes that require machine guns and silencers, etc, to be registered Federally. So they would have a state statute that can make it their business. Of course, they are still supposed to have reason to believe, other than simple possession, that one is breaking a law before searching your paperwork to see whether or not you are. My tax forms are in the safe where they belong. I don't carry copies of tax forms around with me. That's just dumb to me, but I understand many choose to do so.
 
#25
It's a gray area for alot of law enforcement. For us, or anyone that can read and understand legal documents with relative ease, it's clearly not a state issue. Deputy Fudd may see it another way, but keep in mind not every cop is a gun guy/girl... So unless you're a real gun guy you wouldn't read the NFA.

Like I said, side of caution is never a bad idea.
 

Grumpyoldretiredcop

uber Member
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#26
For clarification, wouldn't it be the barrel OR receiver that need be registered? You can have both registered, and that would allow you to put that registered barrel on a different unregistered receiver and have two legal SBR's, right?

No. The registered part of an SBR is the receiver. Barrels are mere parts and not required to be registered except in the sense that if one wishes to have more than one configuration on their SBR, there is a requirement to notify ATFE to add the desired configuration to the previously approved Form 1 for that SBR. If one has a single registered AR SBR or an AR pistol for which no registration is required, one may have as many different uppers as they wish without fear of prosecution under constructive possession (if one also owns/possess an AR rifle or carbine) but taking the upper off the SBR and installing it on the pistol doesn't make the pistol a SBR.

I'm not sure what tdyoung58 means by having a stamp for his barrel as that doesn't make any sense when referring to a SBR.
 
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MAC702

LEGEN...wait for it... DARY!
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#27
I agree it seems better to register the lower for flexibility of having multiple short uppers. Sure thought I'd heard of the possibility of registering the upper/barrel instead, even though it seems less useful. Regardless, I do agree no need to have both lower receiver AND upper/barrel registered. A silenced SBR only needs two stamps. I've never done a Form 1 to manufacture one. Mine was bought as a factory SBR from Colt.
 
#28
I've never heard of registering a barrel or upper. I do believe if you have a registered lower you can put any barrel on it so long as you return it to the configuration on the form 3 or 4 so if the lower is registered in 5.56 if you put a 9mm upper on it just make sure the 5.56 upper goes back on it. My form 1 has all the information from the lower but I usually keep a 9mm upper on it.
 

MAC702

LEGEN...wait for it... DARY!
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#29
...I do believe if you have a registered lower you can put any barrel on it so long as you return it to the configuration on the form 3 or 4 so if the lower is registered in 5.56 if you put a 9mm upper on it just make sure the 5.56 upper goes back on it. My form 1 has all the information from the lower but I usually keep a 9mm upper on it.
I must admit that makes no sense to me; it's either legal in any configuration once registered, or it isn't. But, well, laws and sausages...
 

stitch702

Recovering Gunaholic
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#30
I must admit that makes no sense to me; it's either legal in any configuration once registered, or it isn't. But, well, laws and sausages...
A lot of it doesn’t make any sense. Especially the sbr and pistols debate. I picked up an sba3 brace to slap on a dedicated pistol lower. Showed that and an sbr to my non gun friend. He couldn’t tell the difference, both looked like a stock to him...well, laws and sausages I guess 🤣
 

MAC702

LEGEN...wait for it... DARY!
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#36
I think SBRs and marijuana are going the same route. Does any body REALLY care anymore? Of course, the OFFICIAL answer is yes...

As far as AR pistols go, this is where the .300 Blackout shines. I don't know why you'd ever do it in .223 unless it was that critical to have the easy ammo.
 

Grumpyoldretiredcop

uber Member
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#37
I picked up an SBA3 brace and LPK combo from Palmetto. The brace makes my 7.5" pistol pretty effective. It's not as good as a stock but it'll do. If ATFE pulls the same trick again, that pistol will become an SBR also... I might do it anyway just because I can.

MAC, the second upper I built for my AR pistol was in .300 BO - worth it if you live, as we do, in a state that allows suppressors. I have access to company owned suppressors but I'm waiting for my own first can; once I have it I'll get more use out of the BO upper. Lacking that, the 5.56 made better sense to me as the ammo is easier to find and cheaper as well.
 

tdyoung58

NNLP 31st Batt
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#38
For clarification, wouldn't it be the barrel OR receiver that need be registered? You can have both registered, and that would allow you to put that registered barrel on a different unregistered receiver and have two legal SBR's, right?
Because the reciever is a class 3 nfa item,
Then due to barrel being 10.5" with a rifle stock.
 

tdyoung58

NNLP 31st Batt
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#39
In confused, a can takes a stamp, a lower receiver takes a stamp. A barreled upper alone isn’t an NFA item and does not require a stamp.
The reciever is a class 3 nfa item, all by itself

The barrel is 10.5" ( but it's a rifle stock ) SBR

Then the can ....
 

Kinoons

Obsessed Member
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#40
The reciever is a class 3 nfa item, all by itself

The barrel is 10.5" ( but it's a rifle stock ) SBR

Then the can ....
That still doesn’t make sense. On an AR the receiver gets one stamp and the can another. I have a 10” upper on my registered lower and there is no stamp for the upper itself. Then i have a second stamp for my can. There is no need for a third stamp for the barrel itself.

Edit - for example if you were to purchase a built SBR there is only one stamp needed. If that SBR is an AR then you can remove the factory upper and replace it with another upper that has a barrel of less than 16” and not require another stamp.

Second edit — a registered MG is not a rifle. A MG can have any length barrel and does not require a second stamp for a barrel of less than 16”

https://www.m4carbine.net/archive/index.php/t-5103.html
 
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