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SCOTUS says online sales can be taxed by resident state

Ron_O

Cave Dweller
#5
No worries. You have owed the tax anyways and have been not paying it. We have a use tax in Nevada that people choose to ignore.
What this is really about is when you go on eBay to liquidate your grandma's estate and sell items to buyers in 30 different states. You now have to collect sales tax from each of those buyers and send it to each individual state, including the documentation that goes with it.

This is a major blow for small time sellers and a record keeping nightmare for online businesses nationwide. There are more than 10k tax districts here in the USA.

States are crying for more money when they should actually be cutting their spending.
 

Craig

Do Not Read This
Forum Supporter
#7
This is basically Taxation Without Representation! Why should another state force me as a seller to collect their state’s taxes? Are they going to compensate me as the seller for collecting their taxes? Why should I have to spend my time and energy collecting another state’s tax money for free, when I have no say in that state’s government as I am not a resident and can’t vote there?

This switch basically screws every small time retail business who sell on their own site. eBay, Amazon and a few other large auction sales sites will figure out the tax for the seller. They make enough money and can pay for a staff to set up and maintain a tax database for every county. Then they will add a few cents of the cost to the seller.

The small business who sell things like hand made items, or basic retail goods cannot possibly figure out the different tax rates for thousands of counties in the US, or even try to keep up with the changes in Tax Rates every year so they will have to close down their online business and sell via eBay, or Amazon.

That’s why the big guys did not try and fight this. Retailers will be forced to use Amazon , eBay, etc.

Some stores may stop selling “online” and may only let you order online for local pickup at their stores, where they know the local taxes.

I only hope some companies step in and offer small business online sales software that figures out the buyer’s tax rates and pays the buyer’s county so small retailers can keep doing business online. The buyer would input their postal code and the software automatically inputs the right tax rate.

I have a friend who sells equipment cases out of his home based business that operates exclusively online. He imports a shipping container a few times a year, stores stuff in his garage, and has a basic website where you can shop, add items to a cart, and purchase online. I know he sells all over the United States and this new law will really hurt him and his wife.
 
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Bart Carter

Negotiator
Forum Supporter
#8
What this is really about is when you go on eBay to liquidate your grandma's estate and sell items to buyers in 30 different states. You now have to collect sales tax from each of those buyers and send it to each individual state, including the documentation that goes with it.

This is a major blow for small time sellers and a record keeping nightmare for online businesses nationwide. There are more than 10k tax districts here in the USA.

States are crying for more money when they should actually be cutting their spending.
Does a person selling a personal item have to collect sales tax for another state? We don't collect sales tax when we sell personal items here in Nevada. Wouldn't this just be for businesses?
 

Gullwing

1911 pistolsmith
Staff member
Moderator
#9
Does a person selling a personal item have to collect sales tax for another state? We don't collect sales tax when we sell personal items here in Nevada. Wouldn't this just be for businesses?
I would think so, but then if you sell x amount of stuff you are now a business.
 

Kinoons

Obsessed Member
Forum Supporter
#10
This is basically Taxation Without Representation! Why should another state force me as a seller to collect their state’s taxes? Are they going to compensate me as the seller for collecting their taxes? Why should I have to spend my time and energy collecting another state’s tax money for free, when I have no say in that state’s government as I am not a resident and can’t vote there?

This switch basically screws every small time retail business who sell on their own site. eBay, Amazon and a few other large auction sales sites will figure out the tax for the seller. They make enough money and can pay for a staff to set up and maintain a tax database for every county. Then they will add a few cents of the cost to the seller.

The small business who sell things like hand made items, or basic retail goods cannot possibly figure out the different tax rates for thousands of counties in the US, or even try to keep up with the changes in Tax Rates every year so they will have to close down their online business and sell via eBay, or Amazon.

That’s why the big guys did not try and fight this. Retailers will be forced to use Amazon , eBay, etc.

Some stores may stop selling “online” and may only let you order online for local pickup at their stores, where they know the local taxes.

I only hope some companies step in and offer small business online sales software that figures out the buyer’s tax rates and pays the buyer’s county so small retailers can keep doing business online. The buyer would input their postal code and the software automatically inputs the right tax rate.

I have a friend who sells equipment cases out of his home based business that operates exclusively online. He imports a shipping container a few times a year, stores stuff in his garage, and has a basic website where you can shop, add items to a cart, and purchase online. I know he sells all over the United States and this new law will really hurt him and his wife.
Woah slow down there. It’s not taxation without representation, you’re taking money from the buyer and giving the buyers money to the government. It’s the buyer that’s getting taxed not the seller.

The big companies figured out how to collect state taxes from Internet orders. I have no doubt smaller companies who have a computer can get software that will do it too.

In South Dakota where this decision is based it won’t matter unless

they had more than $100,000 in annual sales or more than 200 transactions in the state.
So super small busisness won’t be affected if they don’t do a lot of busisness in SD.

Also

But it won’t help municipal governments in states such as Pennsylvania and New Mexico where quirks in tax codes prevent local jurisdictions from taxing remote sellers.
So sell all you want to people in NM and PA

As the artilcle says most every state will have to amend their tax laws and regulations to effectively collect tax on out of state ecommerce. You would hope each state government doesn’t screw it up (which may be asking a lot) and makes it relatively easy on the smaller busisness, but again in reality I bet it’s a not so difficult software programming issue.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile...court-sales-taxes-internet-merchants.amp.html
 

Ron_O

Cave Dweller
#11
Who's to say or prove what's personal? In several states personal is not taxable in any way, such as in yard sales. An online seller who doesn't sell new packaged goods could simply claim they're clearing out the attic or garage. What if you're unloading your Hot Wheels collection from the 70's? Taxable?

I agree that Florida isn't paying me to enforce their tax laws. I have no agreement to collect tax from any state other than my own.

Let the litigation begin.
 

Kinoons

Obsessed Member
Forum Supporter
#12
Who's to say or prove what's personal? In several states personal is not taxable in any way, such as in yard sales. An online seller who doesn't sell new packaged goods could simply claim they're clearing out the attic or garage. What if you're unloading your Hot Wheels collection from the 70's? Taxable?

I agree that Florida isn't paying me to enforce their tax laws. I have no agreement to collect tax from any state other than my own.

Let the litigation begin.
Serious question because I don’t run my own busisness. Assuming you sell goods in NV does NV pay you to collect their taxes now? If not why would you expect FL to do so?
 

Ron_O

Cave Dweller
#13
Serious question because I don’t run my own busisness. Assuming you sell goods in NV does NV pay you to collect their taxes now? If not why would you expect FL to do so?
Let's expand that a bit. I put something up on eBay and some buyer out of Siberia buys it. Am I required or obligated to collect and send their taxes as well? Absolutely no difference.

Will the KGB be at my door for not enforcing their tax laws?

Will Florida be sending their tax goons to Las Vegas to collect their pound of flesh from ME, or will they be going after their own resident, who IS subject to their tax laws?

The system is flawed. Their own citizen needs to report those purchases. And what if he bought my used pair of hiking boots that I recently upgraded? Taxed on that as well?
 

Kinoons

Obsessed Member
Forum Supporter
#14
Let's expand that a bit. I put something up on eBay and some buyer out of Siberia buys it. Am I required or obligated to collect and send their taxes as well? Absolutely no difference.

Will the KGB be at my door for not enforcing their tax laws?

Will Florida be sending their tax goons to Las Vegas to collect their pound of flesh from ME, or will they be going after their own resident, who IS subject to their tax laws?

The system is flawed. Their own citizen needs to report those purchases. And what if he bought my used pair of hiking boots that I recently upgraded? Taxed on that as well?
So what you’re saying is you’re not running a busisness and selling your own used crap on eBay, then no sales tax, you’re not running a busisness. I don’t think (IANAL, IMHO, etc) this court decision was intended to apply to you. As noted in the article I linked, SD is interested in business that do 200 transactions or 100k worth of sales in their state alone. That’s a lot of personal used boots if you’re getting to that level.
 

requiem

Ain't nobody got time for that!
Staff member
Administrator
#15
This is a major blow for small time sellers and a record keeping nightmare for online businesses nationwide.
this was my first thought when i heard. NV has the audacity to charge a fee to collect taxes on their behalf. i cannot wrap my head around this crap.
 

Ron_O

Cave Dweller
#17
So what you’re saying is you’re not running a busisness and selling your own used crap on eBay, then no sales tax, you’re not running a busisness. I don’t think (IANAL, IMHO, etc) this court decision was intended to apply to you. As noted in the article I linked, SD is interested in business that do 200 transactions or 100k worth of sales in their state alone. That’s a lot of personal used boots if you’re getting to that level.
Actually you're extremely off track. Each state can draft a law to tax whatever it damn well pleases. And if I sell 100 items on eBay, most of which are used but bought and sold for profit, and a portion cleaning out the garage, who's to say which is taxable or not? And in which states? Shoes aren't taxable in Virginia but definitely so in Washington State? This is so complex it's beyond comprehension.

I'm not a tax collector for any of those states. If I put an ad on Craigslist and some guy from Virginia wants to buy my item and have me ship it to him, do I tax him? Do I tax the shipping? How will he know I'm not simply pocketing the taxes?

How many of you now feel we should be taxing one another for our sales on our site? It's pathetic. Impossible to enforce but in theory makes criminals out of each and every one of us who ships across state lines and doesn't collect and pay sales tax.

Why not just reverse it. I charge tax to my eBay buyers regardless of where they live, and I pay the tax to the State of Nevada, since Nevada is where the sale originated? At least that would be somewhat manageable. Of course Oregon residents would have an unfair advantage since they don't charge sales tax.

And the litigation begins staging for battle...
 

Kinoons

Obsessed Member
Forum Supporter
#18
Actually you're extremely off track. Each state can draft a law to tax whatever it damn well pleases. And if I sell 100 items on eBay, most of which are used but bought and sold for profit, and a portion cleaning out the garage, who's to say which is taxable or not? And in which states? Shoes aren't taxable in Virginia but definitely so in Washington State? This is so complex it's beyond comprehension.

I'm not a tax collector for any of those states. If I put an ad on Craigslist and some guy from Virginia wants to buy my item and have me ship it to him, do I tax him? Do I tax the shipping? How will he know I'm not simply pocketing the taxes?

How many of you now feel we should be taxing one another for our sales on our site? It's pathetic. Impossible to enforce but in theory makes criminals out of each and every one of us who ships across state lines and doesn't collect and pay sales tax.

Why not just reverse it. I charge tax to my eBay buyers regardless of where they live, and I pay the tax to the State of Nevada, since Nevada is where the sale originated? At least that would be somewhat manageable. Of course Oregon residents would have an unfair advantage since they don't charge sales tax.

And the litigation begins staging for battle...
You’re making this more difficult than it needs to be. Either you’re running a Business for profit or you’re not. If you’re not a business then you don’t need to worry about collecting sales tax from anyone in our state, or another state for that matter. If you are running a business then you’re going to collect taxes. The databases, excel spreadsheets, or other software solutions already exist. I bet there are plenty of small business accounting software suites which do this currently.

If you happen to have a business to sell goods and also want to sell some of your own personal used goods get a second user name on EBay or otherwise distinguish the two.

Yes each state gets to pass their own respective laws for people in their state purchasing from out of state business. I’m still optimistic that other state laws will be similar to SD so unless you’re moving a lot of product or cash your business won’t even be affected.
 

Ron_O

Cave Dweller
#19
You’re making this more difficult than it needs to be. Either you’re running a Business for profit or you’re not. If you’re not a business then you don’t need to worry about collecting sales tax from anyone in our state, or another state for that matter. If you are running a business then you’re going to collect taxes. The databases, excel spreadsheets, or other software solutions already exist. I bet there are plenty of small business accounting software suites which do this currently.

If you happen to have a business to sell goods and also want to sell some of your own personal used goods get a second user name on EBay or otherwise distinguish the two.

Yes each state gets to pass their own respective laws for people in their state purchasing from out of state business. I’m still optimistic that other state laws will be similar to SD so unless you’re moving a lot of product or cash your business won’t even be affected.
Huh?

So when someone in Indiana buys something from someone in Nevada, they only owe taxes if I claim that I'm running a business rather than selling my own personal items? This is not about Nevada law, it's about every other state and how THEY want to tax ANYTHING that their residents buy from out of state. It's not for me to decide.

All any eBay seller, or anyone else for that matter who doesn't have a major business presence, has to do is CLAIM that they're not running a business, regardless of how much money they rake in. I buy something for $100, hang it in my home for six months while I enjoy it, and then sell it for $1000 on eBay and by golly I just made some cold hard cash on my 'personal items'.

Guess if it was stored in my garage then it was just excess junk laying around. I had a buddy in Kalifornia who used to flip Jeeps for a living. He'd buy them, head to the DMV to pay the licensing fees, customize them, and make $10k by flipping them to Silicon Valley Yuppies. His personal stuff, registered in his name, not taxable, right?
 

Kinoons

Obsessed Member
Forum Supporter
#20
Huh?

So when someone in Indiana buys something from someone in Nevada, they only owe taxes if I claim that I'm running a business rather than selling my own personal items? This is not about Nevada law, it's about every other state and how THEY want to tax ANYTHING that their residents buy from out of state. It's not for me to decide.

All any eBay seller, or anyone else for that matter who doesn't have a major business presence, has to do is CLAIM that they're not running a business, regardless of how much money they rake in. I buy something for $100, hang it in my home for six months while I enjoy it, and then sell it for $1000 on eBay and by golly I just made some cold hard cash on my 'personal items'.

Guess if it was stored in my garage then it was just excess junk laying around. I had a buddy in Kalifornia who used to flip Jeeps for a living. He'd buy them, head to the DMV to pay the licensing fees, customize them, and make $10k by flipping them to Silicon Valley Yuppies. His personal stuff, registered in his name, not taxable, right?
You got it. If you’re selling personal items not for monetary gain you’re not running a business. Buy Jeep’s and flip them to make money and you are. It’s similar to the idea of having a C&R and purchasing/selling firearms to either expand or contract your collection. Hell even the ATF understands this one.

Does a license as a collector of curio or relic firearms authorize the collector to engage in the business of dealing in curios or relics?
No. A collector’s license only enables the collector to transport, ship, receive, and acquire curios and relics in interstate or foreign commerce, and to make disposition of curios and relics in interstate or foreign commerce, to any other licensee, for the period stated on the license. A collector’s license does not authorize the collector to engage in a business required to be licensed under the Act. Therefore, if the acquisitions and dispositions of curios and relics by a collector brings the collector within the definition of a manufacturer, importer, or dealer, he shall qualify as such. A dealer’s license must be obtained to engage in the business of dealing in any firearms, including curios or relics.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a) and 923(a)(1), 27 CFR 478.41(c)(d)]

Q: What does “engaged in the business” mean?
The term “engaged in the business,” as applicable to a firearms dealer, is defined as a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms.

[27 CFR 478.11]