Selling NFA items





#1
Thanks in advance.

So I have an NFA Trust and the trust owns a suppressor and two short barrel rifles. I will be relocating to an unfriendly gun state much to my displeasure and I wanted to know how the items can be sold. Or worse case scenario, can they be turned in to the ATF? Any advice will help. I hate do do this but family comes first.
 

MAC702

LEGEN...wait for it... DARY!
Commercial Sponsor
Forum Supporter
#3
Unless you KNOW your buyer, I recommend having an NFA dealer handle everything. Even if you know your buyer, you'd have to maintain possession of the item until he receives back his stamp, and you may not have that much time (6-12 months).

If any member of the trust is staying in a freedom-friendly state, they can take possession with no paperwork needed. You may want to look into just adding a trusted friend or family member to the trust, also.
 

Kinoons

Obsessed Member
Forum Supporter
2019 Supporter
#4
I have purchased a suppressor via private party here in NV. Paid half up front and half upon approval of my stamp. Original owner kept the can until approval of the stamp. He was a member here with multiple good transactions so I felt it was worth the risk.

Otherwise consignment or sale to a FFL here is the right answer.
 
Last edited:
#5
Thanks in advance.

So I have an NFA Trust and the trust owns a suppressor and two short barrel rifles. I will be relocating to an unfriendly gun state much to my displeasure and I wanted to know how the items can be sold. Or worse case scenario, can they be turned in to the ATF? Any advice will help. I hate do do this but family comes first.
What state are you going to? The SBRs could be converted to pistols (correction) rifles and removed from the NFA list and sold to whoever you want. You could actually add the buyer to your trust and they could take possession of an item until the stamp comes back. I would consider it if I had a stamp collector who was interested in my stuff.

What kind of can do you have and where do you live?
 
Last edited:

Kinoons

Obsessed Member
Forum Supporter
2019 Supporter
#6
What state are you going to? The SBRs could be converted to pistols and removed from the NFA list and sold to whoever you want. You could actually add the buyer to your trust and they could take possession of an item until the stamp comes back. I would consider it if I had a stamp collector who was interested in my stuff.

What kind of can do you have and where do you live?
Slight nitpick — nothing ever gets removed from the NFA rolls. Also any SBR doesn’t need to be converted into a pistol, it may also be converted into a non-NFA rifle. Put a 16” upper on your registered lower and sell to your hearts content.
 
#7
So many inaccuracies in these last couple of posts..... just sell/consign them to a NFA dealer and be done with it. There are several here in town that can help.
 

Kinoons

Obsessed Member
Forum Supporter
2019 Supporter
#8
So many inaccuracies in these last couple of posts..... just sell/consign them to a NFA dealer and be done with it. There are several here in town that can help.
Things changed in the last few years?

I guess something can be removed from the registry however there is no need to do so.

Once an SBR is no longer in SBR config it is no longer under the control of the NFA. If you want to take your SBR across state lines without a permission slip just put a 16” barrel on it.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Wait_time___sbr_removal_from_nfa_registry/17-428901/
 
Last edited:
#10
problem with selling/consigning to a dealer is you will lose money on the deal. I sent a message to elldog with more information. I also offered my help if he wanted it.
 
#12
I recently had my Uzi SBR removed from the NFA registry and requested a letter from them to confirm. Contact BATFE with attention NFA branch. I waited a couple of weeks for the letter but then decided to call. I was lucky I got a supervisor and he removed it while I was on the phone. He said he would get the letter in the mail that day. You need to send a letter requesting the removal and in my case I told them the short barrel had already been removed from the Uzi. I sent that letter plus a copy of my Form 1. I found it’s a hassle selling SBRs and I will get more customers if my gun is now a carbine.​
 

Kinoons

Obsessed Member
Forum Supporter
2019 Supporter
#14
I recently had my Uzi SBR removed from the NFA registry and requested a letter from them to confirm. Contact BATFE with attention NFA branch. I waited a couple of weeks for the letter but then decided to call. I was lucky I got a supervisor and he removed it while I was on the phone. He said he would get the letter in the mail that day. You need to send a letter requesting the removal and in my case I told them the short barrel had already been removed from the Uzi. I sent that letter plus a copy of my Form 1. I found it’s a hassle selling SBRs and I will get more customers if my gun is now a carbine.
It’s nice that you jumped through those hoops. You didn’t need to. All you had to do is put a 16” barrel on your uzi and sell it as a carbine. No interaction with ATF needed.
 

Kinoons

Obsessed Member
Forum Supporter
2019 Supporter
#16
Who is going to be in possession of them?
Does someone need to be “in possession”? Would a storage locker with a gun safe in it be okay? I’ve never looked too much but I understand there are some private vault companies. Hell a gun safe in a friends house? As long as he’s the only one with access I believe he’s okay.
 

MAC702

LEGEN...wait for it... DARY!
Commercial Sponsor
Forum Supporter
#17
Does someone need to be “in possession”? Would a storage locker with a gun safe in it be okay? I’ve never looked too much but I understand there are some private vault companies. Hell a gun safe in a friends house? As long as he’s the only one with access I believe he’s okay.
Yes, that's where I would go with that train of thought. What exactly would constitute possession? After all, is a truck driver "in possession" of the cargo in the truck, or just the handgun in the console? Would a safe in a friend's house be good enough? My GUESS is yes, but that would have to be a good friend to agree not to have access to a safe in his own house. If he's that trusted, it seems like the best course is to form a, you know, TRUST, and he can have legal possession anyway.
 

NYECOGunsmith

Obsessed Member
Staff member
Moderator
Forum Supporter
2019 Supporter
#18
If the safe in a friend's house is one he can open, then under the law (at least when I was still working as a Fed) that is viewed as him (the friend) having control and possession of the contents.
Doesn't matter that he's never seen the inside of the safe, and doesn't know it's contents, he will have to prove THAT after his arrest if it somehow comes to that. You are Guilty until proven Innocent in these sort of circumstances unfortunately.

Same thing for a truck driver, he might pick up a already loaded, sealed and locked trailer, and if it is found to contain contraband (Drugs, stolen guns, whatever) he is deemed to be in possession and control of it until he can prove he had no knowledge of the contents.

As for the buddy with the safe, him trying to prove he had never seen the contents of, nor opened up the safe, well, that wouldn't work , if he has the combination or the key, he would be considered to have possession of, and control of, the contents if it were opened by law enforcement and found to contain illicit items. OF course he could deny havig the key or combo, but if there was anyway for the arresting LEA to prove he did have the key or combo (like running the serial number of the safe and finding where it was sold, pulling his credit card info, checking info, etc. and seeing that he purchased it) then he's back on the hook.

So if your buddy will let you install YOUR safe in his home, and he has no knowledge of the contents (load the safe before installing it, etc. ) and he does not have the key or combo because it is your safe, then he would be in the clear, but still subject to arrest and trial for the contents if they were discovered, and he's back to having to prove his innocence.

A friend of mine went through this some years back, he stored some NFA items at his brother's home, in a safe he provided, his brother having no key to unlock the safe dial, nor the combo.

My friend took the extra precaution (it was a rather cheap safe) of videoing himself putting the NFA items and copies of the stamps in the safe, locking it, then running a few beads of weld along the door seams before putting it in his brother's home.

IT sat there unopened for several years, until the day the home owner brother's new girlfriend got arrested for drug dealing, and with a warrant to search the place the safe was cut open and the NFA items found, along with the copies of the stamps.

The brother storing the safe was arrested, but was able with the help of the brother who owned it to prove he was not in possession or control of the NFA items and had no knowledge of what was in the safe at all.

It was fortunate that he was also able to prove that the girlfriend he had known only 2 months, and who had moved into his home only a month earlier because her apartment had burned down, had not given him a single clue that she was dealing drugs on the side in addition to being a pharmacist.
Also to his advantage was the fact that the brother who owned the safe and contents worked for me, and was a Federal Agent.

This is one of those areas that have a whole lotta shades of gray that can get you into trouble, depending on who's jurisdiction it falls under (both Law Enforcement AND Judicial I mean ) , and it's also an area where you are often presumed guilty until proven innocent (like a trucker hauling a sealed trailer that he picked up that way, with nothing about the trailer to give a "reasonable man" the suspicion that it contained anything illegal) he's going to have to prove his innocence as to what was in the trailer.

Neither the law nor those who enforce it are perfect, because the law(s) are written by humans and enforced by , and interpreted by, other humans.

Makes for a really tricky life sometimes, trying to be law abiding and failing because someone changed a law without notice, or interpreted it differently in your locale than in another, etc.

When in doubt, consult a lawyer, or if you have a friend who is a lawyer and a judge, ask them for an opinion.
Just remember that's all you are going to get from either , is an opinion, not a get out of jail free card that reads "What I did that you are arresting me for is legal because So and So said so".

It is unfortunate, in my opinion that so many of us enjoy a hobby that others of a narrow bend of mind, limited life experience, or limited intelligence, view as something that needs to be strictly controlled, regulated, or just outright banned.

Ban and punish the MISUSE and /or ABUSE of anything, starting with the human mind, NOT the ownership and possession of an object.
That's a more practical approach in my opinion, but the Cat says it will be millennia before the residents of this planet evolve to that level.
Then again, she also says the only thing wrong with this planet is that it is infested with humans...…..but she and her kind are working on solving that problem!
 

Kinoons

Obsessed Member
Forum Supporter
2019 Supporter
#19
Yes, that's where I would go with that train of thought. What exactly would constitute possession? After all, is a truck driver "in possession" of the cargo in the truck, or just the handgun in the console? Would a safe in a friend's house be good enough? My GUESS is yes, but that would have to be a good friend to agree not to have access to a safe in his own house. If he's that trusted, it seems like the best course is to form a, you know, TRUST, and he can have legal possession anyway.
Wouldn’t you have to “sell” the items to the trust requiring all new stamps (and $200 each) to have a trust take ownership of your own NFA items? May be a better option than selling but can get expensive quickly.
 

Kinoons

Obsessed Member
Forum Supporter
2019 Supporter
#20
If the safe in a friend's house is one he can open, then under the law (at least when I was still working as a Fed) that is viewed as him (the friend) having control and possession of the contents.
Doesn't matter that he's never seen the inside of the safe, and doesn't know it's contents, he will have to prove THAT after his arrest if it somehow comes to that. You are Guilty until proven Innocent in these sort of circumstances unfortunately.

Same thing for a truck driver, he might pick up a already loaded, sealed and locked trailer, and if it is found to contain contraband (Drugs, stolen guns, whatever) he is deemed to be in possession and control of it until he can prove he had no knowledge of the contents.

As for the buddy with the safe, him trying to prove he had never seen the contents of, nor opened up the safe, well, that wouldn't work , if he has the combination or the key, he would be considered to have possession of, and control of, the contents if it were opened by law enforcement and found to contain illicit items. OF course he could deny havig the key or combo, but if there was anyway for the arresting LEA to prove he did have the key or combo (like running the serial number of the safe and finding where it was sold, pulling his credit card info, checking info, etc. and seeing that he purchased it) then he's back on the hook.

So if your buddy will let you install YOUR safe in his home, and he has no knowledge of the contents (load the safe before installing it, etc. ) and he does not have the key or combo because it is your safe, then he would be in the clear, but still subject to arrest and trial for the contents if they were discovered, and he's back to having to prove his innocence.

A friend of mine went through this some years back, he stored some NFA items at his brother's home, in a safe he provided, his brother having no key to unlock the safe dial, nor the combo.

My friend took the extra precaution (it was a rather cheap safe) of videoing himself putting the NFA items and copies of the stamps in the safe, locking it, then running a few beads of weld along the door seams before putting it in his brother's home.

IT sat there unopened for several years, until the day the home owner brother's new girlfriend got arrested for drug dealing, and with a warrant to search the place the safe was cut open and the NFA items found, along with the copies of the stamps.

The brother storing the safe was arrested, but was able with the help of the brother who owned it to prove he was not in possession or control of the NFA items and had no knowledge of what was in the safe at all.

It was fortunate that he was also able to prove that the girlfriend he had known only 2 months, and who had moved into his home only a month earlier because her apartment had burned down, had not given him a single clue that she was dealing drugs on the side in addition to being a pharmacist.
Also to his advantage was the fact that the brother who owned the safe and contents worked for me, and was a Federal Agent.

This is one of those areas that have a whole lotta shades of gray that can get you into trouble, depending on who's jurisdiction it falls under (both Law Enforcement AND Judicial I mean ) , and it's also an area where you are often presumed guilty until proven innocent (like a trucker hauling a sealed trailer that he picked up that way, with nothing about the trailer to give a "reasonable man" the suspicion that it contained anything illegal) he's going to have to prove his innocence as to what was in the trailer.

Neither the law nor those who enforce it are perfect, because the law(s) are written by humans and enforced by , and interpreted by, other humans.

Makes for a really tricky life sometimes, trying to be law abiding and failing because someone changed a law without notice, or interpreted it differently in your locale than in another, etc.

When in doubt, consult a lawyer, or if you have a friend who is a lawyer and a judge, ask them for an opinion.
Just remember that's all you are going to get from either , is an opinion, not a get out of jail free card that reads "What I did that you are arresting me for is legal because So and So said so".

It is unfortunate, in my opinion that so many of us enjoy a hobby that others of a narrow bend of mind, limited life experience, or limited intelligence, view as something that needs to be strictly controlled, regulated, or just outright banned.

Ban and punish the MISUSE and /or ABUSE of anything, starting with the human mind, NOT the ownership and possession of an object.
That's a more practical approach in my opinion, but the Cat says it will be millennia before the residents of this planet evolve to that level.
Then again, she also says the only thing wrong with this planet is that it is infested with humans...…..but she and her kind are working on solving that problem!
Sure, come in and rain on our parade with facts and stuff...