Service pistol with full frame, compact slide.

Ramone

Obsessed Member
#1
With the release of the Glock 19x, it occurred to me that we are seeing a trend in handguns: Pistols with a full frame, normal magazine capacity of 15-17 rounds, and compact slide with a 4" barrel. Caliber is 9x19.

Besides the Glock 19x, examples include the FN 509, S&W M&P Compact 2.0, Sig P320 Compact Carry, CZ-USA P-10 C, and the Springfield (HS Produkt) XD-9.

I have not included the Beretta APX or the HK VP9 because they are slightly larger and more directly complete with the Glock 17. But they have a place in this race if you think so.

The Ruger Security 9 might also be included, but it is not a striker-fired pistol. Instead, it is based on a Keltec design for low-cost manufacturing and a lower price point. You will get what you pay for.

The XD-9 is the original pistol of this group. It came out in 2000, and it has enjoyed a popular run once Springfield started selling it in North America. I have shot this pistol a lot in 9mm Luger and .40. It is a good pistol, although the nine version is better in my experience for reliability.

The XD-9 has not caught on as a service pistol in the U.S., but it is being used in other countries as such, and it has gone to Afghanistan with Croat forces (because the pistol is made in Croatia).

It is strange, that after years of being the only pistol of the full/compact type, other manufacturers are making their own type in this category. I attribute this change to the sundry military and law enforcement tests have happened in the last few years to replace DA/SA pistols.

I like DA/SA pistols, but their days are numbered. A modern striker-fired pistol is easier to learn, simpler in its manual of arms, and it can be had with a frame safety if you think your personnel need such a device.

It seems a full frame to handle more artfully and a shorter slide for rapid presentation are now considered preferred attributes for a service pistol.

Yes, 9mm Luger is better because it is cheaper, easier to shoot well, and provides more rounds in the magazine. I like the .40, but it has gone to way of the .38 Super cartridge: Competition only to meet division requirements for caliber.

All of the above is realized in the almost simultaneous release to the public of the above pistols by reputable manufacturers. Which one would you pick?
 

Kinoons

Obsessed Member
Forum Supporter
#2
I think the Walther PPQ fits into the same category. 4” barrel and 15 rd magazine. My choice out of the group.
 

Tophog

Biker Trailer Trash
Staff member
Moderator
Forum Supporter
#4
Since you like posting music videos, maybe include an Elton John or Boy George clip with your 'striker fired favorites' here! :lol:
 

L-2

uber n00b
#5
I think "Ramone" is making a good observation.

I hadn't noticed until Glock's submission to the Army's MHS solicitation there was an actual request by a large military department specifying such a handgun.

Until this post, I hadn't noticed other brands & models with similar specs (and I've still not even looked at these other brands as I'm a "Glock type of guy").

As I'm not privy to the actual one-gun-solution-method of what the Army wanted (spec'd in AR-PD-177, which I couldn't find) under RFP W15QKN-15-R-0002, I can only presume Glock's submitted pistol, similar to the G19X, met the physical/technical requirement.

I'd been issued the full-size G22Gen3 and G17Gen4 for years (as a LEO) and never felt the need or thought about a smaller slide, as the G19/23 or G26/27 models were available, which I also owned, but weren't issued. I realized I could always use a full-size mag in the smaller models, although grip and reliable-feeding weren't always 100%.

I do believe the existing G19 or G17 (any Gen) is already fine for most uses and parts of our military are already using, at least, the G19. For whatever reason, which I can't imagine (that doesn't mean much as I don't have a great imagination) the Army seemed to want a possible one-gun-solution of a full-size grip, resulting in 17-rounds, but only a 4.1" barreled slide.

Somewhere, somehow, someone is thinking this full-size frame/compact-slide idea is good. I'm not yet convinced, however. I like more of an idea of a COTS (contractor off the shelf) method of choosing what's already commercially available; finding; and choosing from that universe, at least for a basic handgun.

There was also the option of a 2-gun solution, which I'm to which I'm also not privy.

'just adding to the discussion. Not in my signature is, I was also part of a Dept. of Defense purchasing team member for several years.
 

Ramone

Obsessed Member
#6
I would pick the Glock also. If an agency wants a frame safety for it, there is an option that does not void the factory warranty:

https://tenring.com/glock-pistol-work-2/

In this link, there is also an explanation for leaving the Glock trigger as is, out of the box. I agree.

Modern striker-fired pistols have brought the handgun into the age of boring reliability, as a one would expect from any affordable consumer appliance.

The Glock fits this description perfectly.

The FN 509 is interesting, but I have not shot one yet. I currently do not have the time and money to conduct my own personal tests (as I have done so in the past with other pistols).

Many people have their favorite handguns, and there is sentimentality attached to the choice. If you are only a collector, sentimentality is good; it will help you expand your collection. Beyond that concern, I would lose the revolvers and 1911s.

To enjoy the shooting sports, provide personal protection, and have something that stands up to the elements of daily carry, a Glock or one of the many Glock imitators, is the ticket. These pistols work because they are engineered and made to have less tolerance stacking.

Parts fit together easily and do not require hand-fitting. Your modern striker-fired pistol was assembled by line workers with no technical skill except to put the gun together correctly.

It may not seem "fitting," but it allows for a higher level of consistency and quality. They just run, and they will do so for a long time with a modicum of care on the part of the end user.
 
Last edited:

Grumpyoldretiredcop

uber Member
Forum Supporter
#7
I have both the 19X and P320 Carry and like the balance of both. Another interesting P320 combination is the Subcompact slide with either the Compact grip module or the Carry grip module trimmed for the Subcompact slide length. The cyclic rate and recoil characteristics of the shorter slide combined with the control allowed by the longer grip make for a combination that I like.

I haven't shot any of the OP's other examples and might not want to... only because my wallet won't stand the strain!
 

Felid'Maximus

Beware of Cat
Forum Supporter
#9
I have not included the Beretta APX or the HK VP9 because they are slightly larger and more directly complete with the Glock 17. But they have a place in this race if you think so.
APX Centurion is shorter than APX.

As for which one I would pick? All of these guns seem like practically the same thing to me. All that really matters is which one you shoot best.

I would not choose one of these pistols, personally. I don't desire to jump on the bandwagon. If I'm going to carry a full size frame it most likely has a metal frame and probably hammer fired. Not that those are better, they are just my preference.

I also have smaller hands so I have little purpose for a full size grip except for the ability to accept larger mags. And that's mainly an issue of the manufacturer making those mags since makers often do not make mags that extend beyond the grip. I have no use for a grip as large as G17 grip except for the mag capacity. I'd be equally served by a G19 grip and a G17 mag. Maybe even the G26 grip might be good for me if it has no finger grooves. I think I loose a pinky only because the finger grooves force my finger spacing apart.

I'd sooner take a subcompact frame and a full length or compact slide than a full length grip and a compact slide.
 

Ramone

Obsessed Member
#10
spanish milsurp star bm 9mm. steel. single stack. solid.

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Critical Look at Star Model BM.htm


This pistol was imported into the U.S. about 30 years ago, and they were once available new as well. The above review by the late, great Stephen A. Camp is a good look at this now almost forgotten classic.

The pistol saw use in the bush wars in Africa and held its own. If anyone knows the link to the story of the Panhard Armored Car crewman who used one to fend off an attack, please share.
 
#11
I'm a fan of these, and my choice in the Springfield XD-9. The grip safety being the primary reason. Everyone says you don't need the grip safety if you train enough. They completely neglect the fact when concealed carrying, you may have to holster and reholster multiple times a day because you frequent places that requires you to do so to be in compliance with the law. You'll often have to do so in the confines of tight spaces, such as in the driver's seat, while the number of layers and types of clothing that can get in the way is always varying.

There's another category of these pistols a bit more extreme that's gaining popularity as well. Sub compact double stacks, with grip extension mags. You get a full size grip, and around 3" of barrel length.
 

titanNV

NRA Endowment Member
Administrator
Forum Supporter
#12
There's another category of these pistols a bit more extreme that's gaining popularity as well. Sub compact double stacks, with grip extension mags. You get a full size grip, and around 3" of barrel length.
Like the XD Sub compact. Nice gun. Used to have one but opted for a single stack.
 

Ramone

Obsessed Member
#14
I said above that the TDA pistol's days are numbered. It was premature of me to say so. Check out the new Jericho 941 pistols with polymer frame and mid-size slide. The barrel is just under 4 inches, and the magazine is 16 rounds. If your flavor is a CZ-type pistol, this one is worth a look. IWI-US is importing them now from Israel.
 

Gullwing

1911 pistolsmith
Staff member
Moderator
#15
I had an older steel frame Jericho 941. Shorter slide but 17 rounds? and an amazing trigger. It was accurate and felt great to hold. Traded it for a Beretta 96 with many extras to a brother in law. I came out on top by double what I had in the Jericho, but kind of want it back.
 
#16
I got a new Walther Creed for $269, 3 16 round mags, DA only with a recessed hammer, it lives next to the recliner, shoots well, as good as the Glock that is for sale now
 

Ramone

Obsessed Member
#17
The news is that the Air Force and the Navy are going with the M18 exclusively: Full frame, compact slide, 17 or 21 rounds in magazine. It would be nice to see a civilian version of this pistol offered because its thumb safety is reported to be quite right (if you like thumb safeties).
 

tdyoung58

NNLP 31st Batt
Forum Supporter
#19
Ruger SR9e ... Striker fired, I think it's actually better than the SR9, 17 rounds, 4.2" barrel, nicer sights and no goofy loaded flag.
Wider Serrations are better for shooting with gloves
 

Ramone

Obsessed Member
#20
I have purchased a Glock 45. I have yet to start testing it, but it is now on deck to do so. By looking at it out of the box, it is pretty tight for a Glock. CS at Comp-Tac holsters tells me that Glock 19 holsters are not fitting the new model (the 45). So, buyer beware. I will wait to see what Comp-Tac comes up with. Their products are good and recommended, worth the wait.