The Decline of the American Sedan

Ramone

Obsessed Member
#1
As you know, Ford announced recently it is stopping production of its cars except for the Mustang. The Focus will be changed to a small crossover vehicle. I note too that Rolls Royce has now come out with an SUV. So, from upper class to working class, the sedan is dissed. But there are still European and Asian models to be had.

A trunk is still a good thing to have on a car because the thieves cannot see what it is in it. SUVs are popular in Reno. The vehicle burglars love Reno, you see, because they can see your stuff and take it while you are working out and hooking up at the Fitness Center. You could have purchased an Audi A4, but you got another cookie-cutter SUV. Say bye to your stuff, including your guns.
 

Gullwing

1911 pistolsmith
Staff member
Moderator
#2
You think it is hard to find a sedan, try an old fashion station wagon. But there is still the open truck issue. Cargo covers help, but some are not very good.
The Europeans all still have sedans, but many are spreading out into any niche they can think of.
How many cars still have hood ornaments? Mercedes but only no sport package sedans, Rolls Royce, Bentley on some models and??? Caddy did but not sure if anymore now.
 

LASCHRIS

California Liberal
#3
As you know, Ford announced recently it is stopping production of its cars except for the Mustang. The Focus will be changed to a small crossover vehicle. I note too that Rolls Royce has now come out with an SUV. So, from upper class to working class, the sedan is dissed. But there are still European and Asian models to be had.

A trunk is still a good thing to have on a car because the thieves cannot see what it is in it. SUVs are popular in Reno. The vehicle burglars love Reno, you see, because they can see your stuff and take it while you are working out and hooking up at the Fitness Center. You could have purchased an Audi A4, but you got another cookie-cutter SUV. Say bye to your stuff, including your guns.
I prefer a suv to a sedan. I would not want to be the unlucky person in a smart car if a suv or truck T-bones one. So many reckless drivers here, I want to be in something with bulk.
Did all the thieves move to Reno? I hope so. Tint your windows, hide your stuff. After market alarm system. Take your weapon with you, and lock it up in your locker. Put it in a non gun box so a libtard do-gooder don't rat you out to fitness center management. And another thing, I have not seen any sheriff's community service vans in Vegas. Put the thieves to work picking up Walmart plastic bags in vacant lots. That or jail time. 100 hours in the sunshine might give them incentive to find another line of work.
 
#4
You think it is hard to find a sedan, try an old fashion station wagon. But there is still the open truck issue. Cargo covers help, but some are not very good.
The Europeans all still have sedans, but many are spreading out into any niche they can think of.
How many cars still have hood ornaments? Mercedes but only no sport package sedans, Rolls Royce, Bentley on some models and??? Caddy did but not sure if anymore now.
The SUV has become the station wagon. At least now with the car based SUV's, they don't have the same gas mileage penalty as truck based SUV's, and have more interior space.

Never been to Europe, but my understanding is that the roads are much narrower in general, and gas is much more expensive, so trucks in Europe (and truck based SUV's) are usually only work vehicles.

Doesn't Jaguar still have a "leaping jaguar" hood ornament?
 

Gullwing

1911 pistolsmith
Staff member
Moderator
#5
I prefer a suv to a sedan. I would not want to be the unlucky person in a smart car if a suv or truck T-bones one. So many reckless drivers here, I want to be in something with bulk.
There is video of an original Smart car going 70 mph into concrete barrier at a slight angle. The passenger door still opened and closed. The Smart car is based about the safety cell which is impressively strong, but another thing the Smart does in an accident is bounce off and roll away.
Not saying it wont get effed up in an accident, but it is better than many small cars.
 

Gullwing

1911 pistolsmith
Staff member
Moderator
#6
The SUV has become the station wagon. At least now with the car based SUV's, they don't have the same gas mileage penalty as truck based SUV's, and have more interior space.

Never been to Europe, but my understanding is that the roads are much narrower in general, and gas is much more expensive, so trucks in Europe (and truck based SUV's) are usually only work vehicles.

Doesn't Jaguar still have a "leaping jaguar" hood ornament?
Jag might still use the leaping cat on some, but it seems to be going away also.

Yes the SUV has replaced the station wagon. SUVs are jacked up higher with or without beefed up suspension which is the cause of different mpg. Mercedes E class wagon has more interior space than most SUVs, but in general MB has more interior space than others in similar model ranges.
Europeans do have narrower roads and gas is 4 to 5 times more expensive. European have many more choices in engines gas and diesel. A model in the US might have a choice of large V6 or V8s, but in Europe you can choose I4, V6 or V8 in gas or diesel and different displacements with or without turbos.
Commercial trucks in US usually have engine in front of driver, in Europe due to size restrictions most/all are cab over.
 
#7
Station wagons RULED when I was a kid.

Another reason for their demise is the MINIVAN.


Never owned one (the wife refused, and instead insisted on full size gas guzzling SUV's), but have rented them several times on vacation, once on a drive from Niagra Falls, NY, all the way to Bar Harbor, Maine, and I can definitely see why they are so popular. Even with 4 full size suitcases and 4 people, there was TONS of room to stretch out.
 

LASCHRIS

California Liberal
#8
There is video of an original Smart car going 70 mph into concrete barrier at a slight angle. The passenger door still opened and closed. The Smart car is based about the safety cell which is impressively strong, but another thing the Smart does in an accident is bounce off and roll away.
Not saying it wont get effed up in an accident, but it is better than many small cars.
I agree, the smart car is well engineered. What about a T-bone with a heavy vehicle, laws of physics come to mind. what about customer modified vehicles that defeat safety engineering? I ride a full size HD. I know if I get hit by a car, or truck, I am going to be hurt. Don't matter how big it is either. Personally I miss the luxury cars of the 60's. It is like riding a sofa. Great for long trips. Of course gas was lots cheaper. Station wagons were great for family trips. The best seat was in the back. American car makers have been wrong before, I think they are wrong again. Remember the AMC Pacer?
 

Gullwing

1911 pistolsmith
Staff member
Moderator
#9
I agree, the smart car is well engineered. What about a T-bone with a heavy vehicle, laws of physics come to mind. what about customer modified vehicles that defeat safety engineering? I ride a full size HD. I know if I get hit by a car, or truck, I am going to be hurt. Don't matter how big it is either. Personally I miss the luxury cars of the 60's. It is like riding a sofa. Great for long trips. Of course gas was lots cheaper. Station wagons were great for family trips. The best seat was in the back. American car makers have been wrong before, I think they are wrong again. Remember the AMC Pacer?
Smart car is 8ft 8 inches nose to tail. T bone in almost anything is a full broadside. So that helps in distribution of energy. How safe is one car over the next? GM tested a 2015? against a 1955 and most would say 55 would be the safer car, Wrong. Even testing 2005 vs 2015 there is a huge difference between like models. I just kind of step back and look at likely hood of getting into a certain type of crash, plus what year car I am in.
But then I am still convinced I can crash through a brick wall in my 1987 190e at 80mph and walk away. I'm kind of crazy like that.
Mom and Aunt had a Pinto for a while growing up. Dad's family had a wagon and while towing a trailer it fishtailed and ended up rolling over, one uncle rolled out onto the road and ended up on his feet no injury while another seat belted in hurt his head unbuckling upside down. So many variables. Find something you "trust" and leave it at that... or worry.
 

requiem

Ain't nobody got time for that!
Staff member
Administrator
#10
once gas hits $4/gallon and all the yuppies/idiots ditch their SUV's like they did in 09, they'll think again.

i recently traded in my subaru for a gmc sierra. size and safety was a concern considering my subaru was 1/3rd the size of the average vehicle (duelly) on the road here in rural texas, but i needed the utility.

the US makers have been pushing the larger stuff mainly because the margins are better and the stuff with the higher margins are typically NOT made in the US.
 
#11
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For the smart car small size, it is relatively safe.
Here are some pictures of a friend's smart car in Georgia who was hit by a women running a red light while he was turning left. He was driving a convertible, same as mine (being a convertible it does not have a full tridion safety cell and 2 less air bags than the coupe) notwithstanding he was banged up but was walking around taking the pictures. A little worse for the driver of the Avalanche who suffered a broken leg and was taken away in an ambulance.
When I asked him if there was any deformity or intrusion into the passenger compartment, he said, no. He did say his coffee cup was knocked out of the cup holder and spilled all over.
 
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requiem

Ain't nobody got time for that!
Staff member
Administrator
#12
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For the smart car small size, it is relatively safe.
Here are some pictures of a friend's smart car in Georgia who was hit by a women running a red light while he was turning left. He was driving a convertible, same as mine (being a convertible it does not have a full tridion safety cell and 2 less air bags than the coupe) notwithstanding he was banged up but was walking around taking the pictures. A little worse for the driver of the Avalanche who suffered a broken leg and was taken away in an ambulance.
When I asked him if there was any deformity or intrusion into the passenger compartment, he said, no. He did say his coffee cup was knocked out of the cup holder and spilled all over.

much like the VW beetle and its shape lends it to be really safe despite small.

btw - that's some cheap gas in that photo!
 

LASCHRIS

California Liberal
#13
much like the VW beetle and its shape lends it to be really safe despite small.

btw - that's some cheap gas in that photo!
The old rear engine beetle. It was the best car to drive in the snow. Weight on the drive wheels. The old beetle floats! If Teddy kennedy was
driving one that dark night, he would of been president. I am not very sure about the front end protection in a crash. It was after all the trunk.
 

Ramone

Obsessed Member
#14
Did all the thieves move to Reno?
It seems they did. Also, they can use a laser flashlight to see through tinted windows. Valuables are at risk if it is not out of sight in a locked trunk. Of course, lock the car too. I am still surprised to see unlocked cars in parking lots around Reno.
 
#16
Dodge/Chrysler seems to be about the only manufacturer selling a popular sedan anymore. I think it's because they are still putting powerful V8's in them that make incredible power and get poor gas mileage.

I know I loved driving my wife's 2013 Chrylser 300. V8 and all wheel drive. Powerful and fast as hell. She could get almost 20mpg out of it.

But we traded it in for a 2015 Durango R/T. Similar performance and drivetrain, but it would also pull my 24' travel trailer.
 

Gullwing

1911 pistolsmith
Staff member
Moderator
#17
There were strong questions about Fiat dropping Chrysler a week ago. But it seems they will live on, for now.
 

NYECOGunsmith

Obsessed Member
Staff member
Moderator
#18
The old
VW Karmann Ghia was actually a pretty safe car , had an uncle who drove them for years, got hit 3 times by drunks, 2 head ons and a T bone, he walked away from all of them. The passenger compartment was a reinforced steel box, with the nose, tail, and sides designed as crumple zones to absorb impact energy. Got pretty good mileage as I recall.
 

Ramone

Obsessed Member
#19
I like the VW Karmann Ghia. It was one of the family cars back in the day, and we drove all over CA in one. In the 1980s, many of them bit the dust (in Huntington Beach) when young men bought them used and turned them into "custom" cars. Totally ruined. Today, my neighbor has one, a 1970 model, and he has restored it (somewhat) into an original mode. Seeing it brings back memories. VW discontinued the Karmann Ghia in 1974 when it started to phase out its air-cooled motors. In 1973, a new one could be had from the VW dealer for $3,000. That amount is just under 17k in today's dollars. Compact cars remain popular today. This price could be realistic in today's market if VW wanted to do a modernized version of the car.
 
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