The laughable quality of modern smith and Wesson

Makulit

Very Active Member
#21
Not doubting you, but are you sure that's Leading? and not where they fixed the crown?

Either way, you've convinsed me I'll never be buying a new S&W. That's beyond BS.
 

NYECOGunsmith

Obsessed Member
Staff member
Moderator
#22
DO NOT CLEAN IT, FIRE IT OR WORK ON IT!

SEND IT BACK AGAIN!

With a letter demanding that all the issues be addressed, and that you require a phone call from the gunsmith who works on it.

About 5 years ago, one of my brothers bought one just like this, with pretty much ALL The same issues, and one more. It had a cylinder to flash gap of over 35 thousandths of an inch!

He pulled it out of the box, loaded it and fired it before I could get a look at it. I was standing to his left and behind him, and it spit lead and a bullet jacket fragment that went through my right cheek and ended up inside my mouth, with me bleeding like a stuck pig.

That one shot was all he got off before I stopped him.

I looked it over, found the gap issue, plus pretty much ALL the issues you have documented here.

Sent it back, it came back with about half of the issues fixed, but the cylinder gap was WORSE when it came back , now measured 47 thousandths of an inch, should be .002 to .009 MAX.

Sent it back again, with the demand to talk to the gunsmith.

He called, was a bit belligerent (brother gave my cell phone number) and we had a nice discussion about the law suit I was going to file against S&W, and since he was the same gunsmith who worked on it the first time, I was going to name him in the law suit.

It got fixed properly that time, but you should not have to go through this.

Either send it back as it is right now, or demand your money back, but I sure as hell wouldn't fire it or work on it, you are creating a huge liability for yourself if you do.

Just my .02 worth, your results may vary.
 

NYECOGunsmith

Obsessed Member
Staff member
Moderator
#25
And came to rest against one of the hollow fangs I drink blood through!

Good one on the cheeks bit there Mbogo!

And GW, you have no idea how much hot lead passing through your gill slits can hurt!

But I'm willing to show you, just hold still!
 

Dr. Marneaus

Station Wagon Collector
#26
DO NOT CLEAN IT, FIRE IT OR WORK ON IT!

SEND IT BACK AGAIN!

With a letter demanding that all the issues be addressed, and that you require a phone call from the gunsmith who works on it.

About 5 years ago, one of my brothers bought one just like this, with pretty much ALL The same issues, and one more. It had a cylinder to flash gap of over 35 thousandths of an inch!

He pulled it out of the box, loaded it and fired it before I could get a look at it. I was standing to his left and behind him, and it spit lead and a bullet jacket fragment that went through my right cheek and ended up inside my mouth, with me bleeding like a stuck pig.

That one shot was all he got off before I stopped him.

I looked it over, found the gap issue, plus pretty much ALL the issues you have documented here.

Sent it back, it came back with about half of the issues fixed, but the cylinder gap was WORSE when it came back , now measured 47 thousandths of an inch, should be .002 to .009 MAX.

Sent it back again, with the demand to talk to the gunsmith.

He called, was a bit belligerent (brother gave my cell phone number) and we had a nice discussion about the law suit I was going to file against S&W, and since he was the same gunsmith who worked on it the first time, I was going to name him in the law suit.

It got fixed properly that time, but you should not have to go through this.

Either send it back as it is right now, or demand your money back, but I sure as hell wouldn't fire it or work on it, you are creating a huge liability for yourself if you do.

Just my .02 worth, your results may vary.
You haven't even seen the best of it yet.

Check out what I found last night when I tried to clean some of the leading out (before I saw any of your comments). There is no way in hell I'm shooting it. This is a copy paste from a post I have in the smith Wesson forum


Okay. I've had it.

I wondered why the barrel was so leaded when it came back from repairs at smith and wesson. I cleaned out the leading, and saw this. it looks like the forcing cone was cut with the worlds dullest tool. Look at the edges of the rifling lands.

Dont mind the excessive lead at the very start of the forcing cone.

Untitled by Andrew M, on Flickr

Untitled by Andrew M, on Flickr

Untitled by Andrew M, on Flickr

Now, this is looking down the barrel. See those little bitty black specs and lines at the edges of the lands that go into the area of the groves?? Those are all high points.
Untitled by Andrew M, on Flickr


oh my god. i'm so over this gun.
 

NYECOGunsmith

Obsessed Member
Staff member
Moderator
#27
The tool that cut the forcing cone was dull and chipped.

Needs a new barrel installed.

At this point I think I would be inclined to demand all my money back from S&W, including all shipping fees, background check fees, etc.

You should not have to be out one cent because of this gun.

There is absolutely no reason for a gun to leave the factory in this condition, let alone a custom shop gun, and even more so, one that went back because of these issues and did not have all of them resolved.

If S&W 's goal is to go out of business, this is the way to do it.
 
#28
This thread is an eye opener.

I have occasionally looked at S&W's Performance Center revolvers, but they always seemed a bit rich for my blood.

After seeing this, I'll definitely stick with my run of the mill Rugers.
 

Dr. Marneaus

Station Wagon Collector
#29
The tool that cut the forcing cone was dull and chipped.

Needs a new barrel installed.

At this point I think I would be inclined to demand all my money back from S&W, including all shipping fees, background check fees, etc.

You should not have to be out one cent because of this gun.

There is absolutely no e vise for a gun to leave the factory in this condition, let alone a custom shop gun, and even more so, one that went back because of these issues and did not have all of them resolved.

If S&W 's goal is to go out of business, this is the way to do it.
I'm just super frustrated because this is the gun with the exact features I want/need, but in concerned if I get another one it'll be just as bad if not worse. I saw one at cabelas last week with a bunch of the same issues.

I want this gun. Just not THIS gun. Ugh.

Maybe I ought to look into a redhawk 8 shooter.
 

NYECOGunsmith

Obsessed Member
Staff member
Moderator
#30
Maybe instead of one huge 8 shot stubby, two 5 shot stubbies, one in each hand?
No single point of failure that way, fastest reload is another loaded gun in the other hand............
 

Makulit

Very Active Member
#31
This thread is an eye opener.

I have occasionally looked at S&W's Performance Center revolvers, but they always seemed a bit rich for my blood.

After seeing this, I'll definitely stick with my run of the mill Rugers.
This!
I'll be looking to Ruger for my future 44Mag. I have a gp100 that I love:yahoo:, not near as pretty as some of the S&W I see:drool5:, but there's no defects either, certainaly nothing on it reminds me of this S&W, Sorry Doc.
 
#32
I'm just super frustrated because this is the gun with the exact features I want/need, but in concerned if I get another one it'll be just as bad if not worse. I saw one at cabelas last week with a bunch of the same issues.

I want this gun. Just not THIS gun. Ugh.

Maybe I ought to look into a redhawk 8 shooter.
I recently picked up a Ruger GP100 Match Champion that I can highly recommend.

Was able to find a new one fairly cheap on Gunbroker, even with transfer and tax was OTD for under $700 - lot of gun at this price point.
 

Dr. Marneaus

Station Wagon Collector
#33
Called. Discussed everything and was assured that if it comes back a Second time that they will DEFINITELY make sure they get all the issues fixed....was also told that the shop is closed for two weeks so yeah it's gonna be a wait.

I asked to speak to a supervisor because of my concern with issues being ignored and other issues not even being noticed. Left a voicemail so I'm not sure when or if I'll hear back.

Ill update.
 

Glocksterpaulie

The Perfectionist
Forum Supporter
#34
Man, you must be frustrated as hell. I would be, not like you bought a Hi Point and when it fails it becomes a hammer. I had a friend back in the late 90's who bought a SA V10 compact 45 when they came out. Went back to SA 5 times, got it back and it was still a single shot pistol. He finally said screw it and sold it as parts and took a loss.

He will never buy anything from them again.

Paulie
 

Dr. Marneaus

Station Wagon Collector
#36
Update: I got a callback from a customer service SUPERVISOR at S&W, and she asked me to send detailed pics directly to her to see what the issues were. Will update as the situation progresses.
 

oly29

uber Member
#37
Question, in the second picture when you got the gun back you are showing the grip and looking at the trigger it looks like there is something broken with the trigger or there is a gap or slot in the trigger. But to me it looks like the rib to the bottom doesn't line up. Maybe just the way the picture looks.
 

snubbyfan

Army Veteran. Specialist 5th. Class
#38
The quality control manager should be fired.My Heritage Rough Rider 22lr, which I just got, has a better fit & finish...and it sells for about $125 (!)
 

Dr. Marneaus

Station Wagon Collector
#39
As mentioned, the sight on the 627 i saw at cabelas was crooked too.

On mine, it looks like the barrel is straight but it was canted whenever the dovetail was cut. Their repair for this was to literally just bump the sight back over and move the rear sight to compensate.

I sent her these pictures, one level is on the flat of the barrel, the other is on the front sight.
Untitled by Andrew M, on Flickr
Untitled by Andrew M, on Flickr

I know this isnt very scientific...

Untitled by Andrew M, on Flickr

Untitled by Andrew M, on Flickr

using just a straight edge:
Untitled by Andrew M, on Flickr

with the level laid down as a straight edge:
Untitled by Andrew M, on Flickr

So, anyway. I was assured I would be called and updated once they review the gun. Unfortunately the shop is closed for 2 weeks for their annual summer break, so i'll be mailing it next week some time. I requested that she personally oversee and inspect these repairs, and also to commit to a shorter turn around time.

It's frustrating even more right now because I got my new VZ grips in the mail today. I put them on the gun to test fit and holy canoli I love it. It fits like a glove, feels like an old friend in my hand. These are the same grips I have on my model 65 that has become my main carry. I was INSTANTLY reminded why I wanted this gun, and that if i get one that is fixed right, it should be an awesome piece of hardware. I was losing sight of that...
 

NYECOGunsmith

Obsessed Member
Staff member
Moderator
#40
Those pics and your test with the levels was a great idea, proof positive of what is wrong with the gun, at least as far as the sight issue goes.

I would tell the S&W Quality Control manager that I would not accept the gun back unless it shoots nearly point of aim = point of impact with the sights, both front and rear, CENTERED on the barrel and receiver.

That's the way they are supposed to be and work, because if they have to be cattywhompus (ancient gunsmith technical term, pay attention guys, it will be on the test!) that leaves little to no room for you to adjust them so that it hits where YOU aim it when YOU are holding it and looking through the sights.


Would you accept a brand new car you just bought that right out of the factory always pulled to the left, and the quality control manager just told you to steer a bit to the right all the time?

I doan thin so Lutcy!

Get what you paid for, or get your money back in total, not a single penny out of your pocket for THEIR inability to produce a quality product that they are already charging waaaaaay too much for.

End of old man/gunsmith rant.