The laughable quality of modern smith and Wesson

Smokers10x

uber Member
Forum Supporter
#41
Thanks OP for starting the thread. I have a 625 PC I haven't had time to shoot yet. Need to go over it with a fine tooth comb and check the barrel/sights with a level. It's the first Smith I've owned that has the lock.
 

Dr. Marneaus

Station Wagon Collector
#42
Those pics and your test with the levels was a great idea, proof positive of what is wrong with the gun, at least as far as the sight issue goes.

I would tell the S&W Quality Control manager that I would not accept the gun back unless it shoots nearly point of aim = point of impact with the sights, both front and rear, CENTERED on the barrel and receiver.

That's the way they are supposed to be and work, because if they have to be cattywhompus (ancient gunsmith technical term, pay attention guys, it will be on the test!) that leaves little to no room for you to adjust them so that it hits where YOU aim it when YOU are holding it and looking through the sights.


Would you accept a brand new car you just bought that right out of the factory always pulled to the left, and the quality control manager just told you to steer a bit to the right all the time?

I doan thin so Lutcy!

Get what you paid for, or get your money back in total, not a single penny out of your pocket for THEIR inability to produce a quality product that they are already charging waaaaaay too much for.

End of old man/gunsmith rant.
I'm more confident now that I have a manager involved, and that she has seen the exact issues I am concerned with. Hopefully everything will be fixed in short order and i can go about enjoying the gun i set out to enjoy :)
 
#43
OK Guys, I know whats up with this revolver and have a solution.

First, the problem with this revolver is that it was made by mixing a metal powder into a slurry and then pouring that goo into a mold and heating it.

So... The problem is that your revolver is made from Pseudo-Metal.

The solution is to stop buying Smith & Wesson products unless you want plastic pistols. I guess some them are OK because it seems S&W plastic hold up better than their steel.

We accept the "cut corners and save money, Walmart, made in China" ethics and therefore they exist.

Making guns from powdered metal is the result. I think I had a cap gun when I was 10 that was of better quality than the modern Smith & Wesson.

Granted, if the revolver was a machined forging fitted by an experienced craftsman it would be a $1500.00 - $2000.00 revolver but I'm OK with that.

What I'm not OK with is not having the option to buy an American double action revolver that is a precision instrument.

I'm sorry you got a bum deal.
 

mbogo

Bwana Mkubwa
Forum Supporter
#44
OK Guys, I know whats up with this revolver and have a solution.

First, the problem with this revolver is that it was made by mixing a metal powder into a slurry and then pouring that goo into a mold and heating it.

So... The problem is that your revolver is made from Pseudo-Metal.

The solution is to stop buying Smith & Wesson products unless you want plastic pistols. I guess some them are OK because it seems S&W plastic hold up better than their steel.

We accept the "cut corners and save money, Walmart, made in China" ethics and therefore they exist.

Making guns from powdered metal is the result. I think I had a cap gun when I was 10 that was of better quality than the modern Smith & Wesson.
You need to learn the differences between MIM'ed parts and parts made from sintered metal.

mbogo
 

mbogo

Bwana Mkubwa
Forum Supporter
#47
No, they're not. Making parts from sintered metal involves compressing parts and bonding them with heat (below melting point) or pressure; it does not involve mixing them with any kind of binder like MIM does.

mbogo
 
#49
Normally when I have a firearm problem or just want to study up I refer to tech manuals where ever they can be found. For S&W revolvers and in this case The S&W Revolvers, A Shop Manual 5th Edition by Jerry Kuhnhausen is one of the best.

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...volver-shop-manual-5th-edition-prod73553.aspx

Section 3, Non-Traditional MIM Parts Models, page 185 has a pictograph of the process involved in making MIM parts.

The last operation is Sintering Oven.

So... MIM is not sintered metal?

Wax or thermoplastic binders be dammed. Its still a firearm made from powdered metal and a very poor manufacturing process.
 

TexasJackKin

Longing to Breath Free
Forum Supporter
#50
It's all a shame, the S&W, puts out products like this! I've got a few older S&W revolvers, and one newer one (686 plus) There is no comparison in quality. I won't be buying any more newer S&W revolvers.

The fact that you have to go though this to get it fixed, is an embarrassment for the once great name of S&W!
 

Dr. Marneaus

Station Wagon Collector
#51
The gun arrived to them last Friday, which was the last day of their 2 week shop closure for the employees to have a summer vacation.

I hadn't heard anything and inquired today as to the status. I was told that the barrel has been replaced and its shipping today.

1 week turn around is pretty good, but all i gotta say is this thing better be bloody perfect.
 

Dr. Marneaus

Station Wagon Collector
#53
Well, I got the gun back from its SECOND trip to the factory because of the "smeared" rifling and canted front sight.

Supposedly they installed a new barrel. Sight looked mostly straight so I looked at the rifling, it was "better" but still smeared and one of the roughest forcing cones i have ever seen. I'd say the "smear" of the rifling was reduced by 50% or so, but its still clearly present.

I figured that means they think its fine to fire. So, I went and ran 300 rounds through it, various factory loads, .38spl and .357. I noticed I was hitting a little right, so adjusted the rear sight a few clicks. Got better, but then later I noticed it again. I chalked it up to me being new to the N frame and the trigger etc. I had one light strike but not sure why, i am going to say it was the ammo.

When I got home I noticed it looked light the front sight drifted left slightly. I wiggled it with my finger and oh joy:

It literally fell RIGHT out. Like, i didnt have to tap it, i didnt have to press with all my might, I literally pushed it right out with one finger.

Untitled by Andrew M, on Flickr

Sigh. Yet again, I guess this is what $1000 buys after they had THREE opportunities to make it right....once from the factory, once on the first trip, once on the second trip....and the gun still is less than 100%.

I dunno, I'm dumb founded. Can I put the sight back in with loctite? Can I stake it with a punch and then fit it back in myself? Yes. Should I have to? No. Thats the whole damn point. Each time it comes back less than 100%, I convince myself to overlook or cope with one or more imperfections, and then I find yet another issue.

I'm so over this, I'm going to sleep on it before I do anything rash, but I think its time for a refund and to take my business elsewhere. Some stuff just ain't meant to work out, how many signs does a guy need?
 

TexasJackKin

Longing to Breath Free
Forum Supporter
#54
Wow, just wow, What has happened to the once great name of Smith & Wesson?? My newer S&W revolver, isn't near the quality of my older ones, but nothing like that, it's just sad, they have come to this!!
 

Dr. Marneaus

Station Wagon Collector
#55
it has become apparent to me that the core competency of Smith & Wesson is in base level production quality guns, and not in anything that is custom or even remotely expanded or improved upon.

Time for a Ruger Redhawk 8 shooter....
 

Gullwing

1911 pistolsmith
Staff member
Moderator
#58
If you still have the contact info for the supervisor I would make a heated call.
Either whole new perfect gun or all money back.
 

Dr. Marneaus

Station Wagon Collector
#59
If you still have the contact info for the supervisor I would make a heated call.
Either whole new perfect gun or all money back.
I think that's the approach I will take.

I don't even know if I want a new gun anymore like...how many signs do I need? This doesn't seem like it's meant to be
 

AngryRed

Dumb Founded
#60
Wow dude I just read through all your updates. I've had horror stories myself (e.g. Taurus PT145) but nothing quite like this, especially at the custom gun price point. I can empathize with the extreme level of disappointment you are feeling though.