Unexpected C&R firearms





Kinoons

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#1
So the last two threads I listed were relatively modern pistols that are C&R eligible and were a surprise to a few people. It has me thinking, are there other firearms we haven’t considered that are in fact C&R eligible? 50 year requirement gets us to 1968. Any interesting pre 1968 firearms?

Walther P-1

CZ82

Early production AR15s are now greater than 50 years old

Early production AK47s are over 50 years old

Soon list

Early S&W model 59s are only 3 years out.

Early Beretta 92 and CZ 75s are only 7 years out.
 
#2
Remington Model 700 started production in 1962. So early 700's are becoming eligible.

Same with Savage 110's. Old style 110's went from 1948 into 1966. 1967 and on shares the same design and has interchangeable parts with current models.
 

Kinoons

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#3
Speaking of long modern production runs, older Walther PP and PPK would be eligible.

Older colt commanders too

HK model 4 and p9 should also be coming up

Styer GB will be in the next few years
 
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4x4Brit

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#4
That CZ82 surprised me and I was going ask about its eligibility so glad you started this thread. There could be a C&R in my future.
 

NYECOGunsmith

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#5
Remington 870 shotgun came out in 1950, so it is well over the 50 year mark, so early serial numbers should qualify as C&R, and if you follow the logic that (and I do, but I doubt BATFE does!) that since the design is the same, more recently manufactured 870's should qualify also. Same for the Browning A5 (came out in 1905) and it's Remington Model 11, and Savage clone brothers, the latter two of course went out of production more than 50 years ago, but the A5 was produced in recent history, so it should qualify as well.

And how about the 1911? Or Browning High Power? 1911 over 100 year old design, high power is over 80, why shouldn't both of those be C&R, even if made yesterday? Makes sense to me (Scary thought there, eh?), as a 1912 manufactured 1911 in good condition is no less lethal than one made yesterday, right? Time to do away with all the stupid gun laws that only keep honest people honest, but then I have been saying that for 50 years now, ever since the GCA of 68 was born.
 

Kinoons

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#7
So the real question is do we say something trying to push for more, like the Walther P1 vs P38 or do we keep quiet and slowly benefit from someone’s shortsightedness at the ATF when the arbitrary 50 year old number was picked. This may be one of those times when loose lips sink ships and the number gets bumped to 75 years. Trump had enough time to swing the ATF to a relatively friendly agency yet?
 
#10
So the real question is do we say something trying to push for more, like the Walther P1 vs P38 or do we keep quiet and slowly benefit from someone’s shortsightedness at the ATF when the arbitrary 50 year old number was picked. This may be one of those times when loose lips sink ships and the number gets bumped to 75 years. Trump had enough time to swing the ATF to a relatively friendly agency yet?
It is always better to keep quiet. As Euripides & Confucius said BC.
 

buckmeister2

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#12
Remington 870 shotgun came out in 1950, so it is well over the 50 year mark, so early serial numbers should qualify as C&R, and if you follow the logic that (and I do, but I doubt BATFE does!) that since the design is the same, more recently manufactured 870's should qualify also.

no, No, and Hell, No, to the logic of "similar design",according to BATF. BATF is absolutely insistent on the 50 year requirement, regardless of design. One thing I have been tripped up by is the "any modification" voiding the status. I have found that "necessary repairs" are allowed, and there is a lot of flexibility there. My biggest problem is getting some FFL's to accept a C&R...some think we are imposing on their business! They don't understand...

What is your interpretation to an older gun having a barrel re-crowned, or a bolt handle bent to clear a scope...or, maybe an updated stock? I have had sellers refuse to honor my C&R on guns with those "modifications".
 

NYECOGunsmith

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#13
Barrel recrowning is a repair, bending the bolt handle to clear scope and having other than the original stock (say, an aftermarket composite stock on a rifle) were modifications, along with anything else which substantionally altered the piece from its original state at time of manufacture.

At least when I was a working gunsmith and federal agent, that was my understanding, as explained to me by a cousin, who was a senior BATFE enforcement division agent in the town where my shop was.

I don't agree with it, neither did he, but it's the way the rules, regs and laws define it.
 

NYECOGunsmith

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#14
The 10/22 started its run in 1964
A serial number proving date of manufacture prior to 11 Jan 1968 would qualify a Ruger 10/22 with that date of manufacture authenticating serial number as a C&R eligible piece.

I doubt any BATFE agent would argue that, however, getting a FFL holder who has one that meets that qualification and wants to sell it, getting him / her to ship it to your C&R license and address, is a whole 'nudder issue.

Some will say sure, and go forward with the sale to your license, others will say no, and there is no way to force them to make the sale even though it would be legal under federal law.
 

Kinoons

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#15
no, No, and Hell, No, to the logic of "similar design",according to BATF. BATF is absolutely insistent on the 50 year requirement, regardless of design. One thing I have been tripped up by is the "any modification" voiding the status. I have found that "necessary repairs" are allowed, and there is a lot of flexibility there. My biggest problem is getting some FFL's to accept a C&R...some think we are imposing on their business! They don't understand...

What is your interpretation to an older gun having a barrel re-crowned, or a bolt handle bent to clear a scope...or, maybe an updated stock? I have had sellers refuse to honor my C&R on guns with those "modifications".

The ATF isn’t absolutely insistent on the “similar design” as noted by approval of the Walter P1 for C&R status.

There is also the special collectors interest status that has gotten pistols like the CZ82 C&R status.

But since when did the ATF need to make sense.
 

MAC702

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#19
I wonder how long before they change this "Codified Federal Regulation," which are done by federal agencies, and not Congress. I wonder what the authority of that agency gives them for latitude in this. Might be scary to find out.