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AK gunsmith? John at M13 Industries is the man!






#1
Just a quick shout out to John at M13 Industries.

Needed a permanently attached (pinned/welded) muzzle brake removed from one of my AK's, and replaced with a less deafening flash hider.

John did the job quickly and expertly while I waited, at a great price -

Have used his services several times -

Highly recommend.
 

Bulleteater

Big Stick policy
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#2
Just a quick shout out to John at M13 Industries.

Needed a permanently attached (pinned/welded) muzzle brake removed from one of my AK's, and replaced with a less deafening flash hider.

John did the job quickly and expertly while I waited, at a great price -

Have used his services several times -

Highly recommend.
Thanks for sharing.

So I've always questioned the choice of using a flash hider on what is essentially a CQB rifle. I know some trainers recommend it, but I never understood the logic. On a long-range precision rifle, where hiding your signature is critical, absolutely. But on an "up close and personal" rifle like an AK - famous for rapid fire, so controlling the muzzle to keep it on target is critical - it seems that a muzzle brake would be the preference. I get that muzzle control can be done with proper fundamentals, but if the brake can give you a bit more advantage then why not opt for one?

I welcome discussion.

Full disclosure: the AK in my Avatar is a WASR-10 and you cannot see it but I have the Type 84 "birdcage" flash hider on it. Why? I like the fact that I can mount the original bayonet on this gun, but, other than the old combloq "slant-cut" brake, the only muzzle device that I know of that works with the bayonet is this birdcage flash hider. Granted the WASR is *not* my Go To AK, that would be my Arsenal SGL with a Bulgarian 74 style muzzle brake. I guess the WASR is my "Mad Max" gun - scary-looking but not as effective.
 

NYECOGunsmith

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#3
Flash suppressor's mission in life isn't to prevent revealing your position to those you are firing on ( don't miss and it's a moot point if they see the flash from the round that kills them) it is to prevent you the shooter from being momentarily blinded by the round you just fired, and thus losing time in acquiring your next target.
Human eyes are not very good at rapidly adjusting to rapid changes in light levels, and it gets worse as we age.
So flash suppressors and smokeless powder formulations which yield lower levels of muzzle flash go hand in hand in a combat firearm.
 
#4
Thanks for sharing.

So I've always questioned the choice of using a flash hider on what is essentially a CQB rifle. I know some trainers recommend it, but I never understood the logic. On a long-range precision rifle, where hiding your signature is critical, absolutely. But on an "up close and personal" rifle like an AK - famous for rapid fire, so controlling the muzzle to keep it on target is critical - it seems that a muzzle brake would be the preference. I get that muzzle control can be done with proper fundamentals, but if the brake can give you a bit more advantage then why not opt for one?

I welcome discussion.
.

I guess its a personal preference thing, as my setups are pretty much the opposite of what you mentioned above.

As I don't deem myself an "operator" I will just talk about what works for me;

I find the loud report and concussion from muzzle brakes to be distracting, obnoxious to other shooters on the line at a range, particularly at a covered range like Desert Sportsman or the Clark County Shooting Park - because the reflected sound and echo makes a 556 sound like a 300 Win Mag, lol. I often shoot high volumes, and the extra sound created by a muzzle brake is very fatigue inducing. Also have never really seen any utility or need for a muzzle brake in either 223/556 rifles (AR/AK and other pattern rifles), or in 762x39 AK rifles. I simply don't find the recoil difficult to manage at all. Particularly as we are not talking about fully automatic rifles.

I CAN see the utility in a 762x51 NATO chambered rifle, as there is substantially more recoil and muzzle rise. I used to have a POF P308 with an aggressive brake (permanently attached from the factory on a 14.5 barrel). The brake worked, but OMG that rifle was obnoxiously loud with bad concussion to the sides. I got a lot of dirty looks at the range. Ended up only shooting it in the desert. So if I still had the rifle I would probably put a flash hider on it also.


Now I DO have ONE rifle that has a very effective muzzle brake - and as with most effective brakes it is also obnoxiously loud - but this one does serve a purpose. It's a "long-ish range precision rifle", lol. Reminton 700 with an aftermarket stock and Timney Calvin Elite trigger. The rifle has a 5-20x Trijicon Accupoint scope on it. Why do I like the brake on this particular rifle?
When shooting by myself, without a spotter, I found that without a brake the rifle would jump/move enough that I was unable to see if my shot hit (shooting steel usually at DSRPC). With the brake, the rifle stays still enough that I never lose sight of the target, even for an instant, and I am able to spot my own shot.

Even though it makes this rifle loud with a lot of concussion as mentioned, a typical range session might be a single 20-round box of match ammo, versus six or eight 30-round mags with an AR or AK.


Now I'll add an "operator" tip:
I would also think that a muzzle brake would be a poor choice on a CQB weapon, particularly if used indoors clearing buildings/houses etc due to the noise and concussion, and when working with a team, as your teammates would get a nice dose of that noise and concussion at any point NOT directly behind the weapon.
 
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Bulleteater

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#5
I've done a lot of Fighting at Night courses with both my G19 and XDM pistols and I have shot quite a lot at night with my AK and never once did I feel "blinded" by the muzzle flash of *any* gun, using nothing more that standard eye-pro in pitch black darkness. In fact, for pistol courses, we were trained to make use of the "flash" to light up the target/opponent at close range and in that sense the flash was very much to our advantage, especially when you combine these techniques with point shooting skills. These courses also involved the use of the flashlight either mounted or hand-held.

I'll grant NYECO's point about getting blinded by the flash from a long-range precision rifle. But we're not talking about long range here.

Again, at CQB ranges, my experience in training is the muzzle flash would actually give you an advantage if you can properly keep the target within the flash boundaries of your muzzle. You would also have the added advantage of better control and target re-acquisition at close range - if you have a muzzle brake on your AK. With the flash hider, at CQB range, you gain nothing and lose everything, in the way of advantages listed above.

As for the "obnoxious" factor, well, I would argue that the AK is all that, no matter how you try to tame it. Put a FH on, sure, but wait till shooters on the line start complaining of brass hurling out of your AK. Happened to me on more than one occasion. The concussion effect from the brake is a none issue that can be solved with good ear-pro and a Big Boy Jock Strap. Some shooters just need to grow a pair. I'm serious.

As for clearing rooms with a team, here's a question: what kind of weapons does SWAT bring to bear? What about the concussive effect of a shotgun inside an enclosure??? And why is that even an issue when your team is outfitted with helmets that I imagine have integral ear-pro?

Lastly, on the topic of muzzle brakes, note that the Soviets trotted out the AK-74 chambered in 5.45x39 that sported a muzzle brake, and they carried these rifles into Afghanistan from 1979-89. They still use these rifles today, so they must have been effective in combat.
 
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skswinger

Obsessed Member
#6
I have muzzle brakes on all my ak74s. They work great. I only have one ak47 now because I love those 74s. It’s a 12 inch sbr draco and I have a flash hider on it because. Of the short barrel. All of my rifles are built for use not looks or pleasing the guy next to me
 

Fogie

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#7
Zombie Thread!
Ported/braked is The Devil. Mega-blast, not so much the noise, is way nasty compared to a little recoil. Ported chokes/barrels are banned in my duck spot, no brakes in my hunting truck.
 
#8
John is the best! He did excellent work on my galil. I'll be taking my next project to him. Which maybe you guys could help me with. I'm looking for a 7.63x39 barrel, thats concentric for suppressing later on. I heard that US made barrels are concentric, but can someone recommend a quality one that is currently in stock somewhere? I'm also having a tough time finding a 5.5mm rear trunnion for a triangle folding stock, any leeds for that one would also be helpful.
 

MrGoat

Very Active Member
#9
Kvar has the 5.5 trunnion with polimer folding stock on hand last time I looked, .. but its expensive, most Russian stuff is these days.

As far as M13 goes.. any secrets to getting them to pick up the phone or respond to a voice mail? I have all the parts sorted for a 105 build but i'm not sure i want to do it myself so I figured if i could find a reasonable quote I'd just have it built for me
 

Rem222

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#10
I wish John and M13 Industries were located in Reno... For that matter any gunsmith in Reno.
 
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#11
Kvar has the 5.5 trunnion with polimer folding stock on hand last time I looked, .. but its expensive, most Russian stuff is these days.

As far as M13 goes.. any secrets to getting them to pick up the phone or respond to a voice mail? I have all the parts sorted for a 105 build but i'm not sure i want to do it myself so I figured if i could find a reasonable quote I'd just have it built for me
He is a busy guy, when you do the best work, you get kinda swamped. I always had the best luck just walking in and talking to him directly. He is super nice and his work is unbeatable. I'm attaching a pic of my Galil he did for me.

122620941_468920587418368_7663190982939615403_n.jpg
 

ducker

Lock and Load
#12
This thread has me confused. M13 has a rifle of mine for close to 14 months. Not a single update. He must think I died off or left town, haha. 14 months is pretty damn long to wait with no end in sight.
 

jchen76

Just a Civy.
#13
This thread has me confused. M13 has a rifle of mine for close to 14 months. Not a single update. He must think I died off or left town, haha. 14 months is pretty damn long to wait with no end in sight.
He's takes his time. I remembered when he could do AK trigger swap while waiting in his shop back in 2017. Last time I used him was to install the factory AUG optic and it took 3 week in 2019. 14 months, building an SVD from scratch? He should be at Red October.
 

ducker

Lock and Load
#14
He's takes his time. I remembered when he could do AK trigger swap while waiting in his shop back in 2017. Last time I used him was to install the factory AUG optic and it took 3 week in 2019. 14 months, building an SVD from scratch? He should be at Red October.

Just a barrel chop. Ya after waiting 14 months I'm about to go down there, and take it back with no work done. Not happy