I hate cars ... I really do
- Thread starter tdyoung58
- Start date
How about 20 minutes as you take a break?
I also could not tolerate hours to charge, except when at home.
But for now, why not have both, an ICE and an EV?
FWIW, most of my many vehicles (15) are ICE. Only four of that 15 are EVs.
While I will keep the ICE vehicles I now have, I will never buy another, with the possible exception of an RV. I don't think they will make a decent E-RV within my lifetime, but if they do make what I want I will be willing to pay 250K$ or little more for such.
I would say they are about half way there to what I would want in an E-RV. And that is in Europe only. Not available in the USA.
-Don- Auburn, CA
I also could not tolerate hours to charge, except when at home.
But for now, why not have both, an ICE and an EV?
FWIW, most of my many vehicles (15) are ICE. Only four of that 15 are EVs.
While I will keep the ICE vehicles I now have, I will never buy another, with the possible exception of an RV. I don't think they will make a decent E-RV within my lifetime, but if they do make what I want I will be willing to pay 250K$ or little more for such.
I would say they are about half way there to what I would want in an E-RV. And that is in Europe only. Not available in the USA.
-Don- Auburn, CA
Tophog
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Don,
Thanks for the offer, but we were already on the road. And I don't use (don't know how) my cell phone for internet, I plod along like it's 1995!
Correct, traffic sucks, even on a Sunday! 15 minute standstill south of Gilroy, FOR NO REASON! And another 45 minutes lost after San Jose!
We went south to Baker, then took Hwy 58 to the 101. Didn't know how much time would be lost in the twisty roads to the north. In retrospect, it might have been faster, or at least mellower, to take the northern routes! By the time we hit San Fran I wanted to murder someone, but there were too many targets!
I'd ask to borrow a bike trailer, but have no idea when I could get it back to you.
Regards, Bob
Thanks for the offer, but we were already on the road. And I don't use (don't know how) my cell phone for internet, I plod along like it's 1995!
Correct, traffic sucks, even on a Sunday! 15 minute standstill south of Gilroy, FOR NO REASON! And another 45 minutes lost after San Jose!
We went south to Baker, then took Hwy 58 to the 101. Didn't know how much time would be lost in the twisty roads to the north. In retrospect, it might have been faster, or at least mellower, to take the northern routes! By the time we hit San Fran I wanted to murder someone, but there were too many targets!
I'd ask to borrow a bike trailer, but have no idea when I could get it back to you.
Regards, Bob
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Someone around here in Vegas is driving around with a trike that has a downsized 57 Chevy rear end on it. I don't know if I like it or not but it sure is unusual and neat. Best of both worlds maybe or worst
https://bosshoss.com/57chevy-trike/
Thanks for the offer, but we were already on the road. And I don't use (don't know how) my cell phone for internet, I plod along like it's 1995!
Correct, traffic sucks, even on a Sunday! 15 minute standstill south of Gilroy, FOR NO REASON! And another 45 minutes lost after San Jose!
I would have taken 58 to 99 and and 99 to 5 through Wasco on 46, and 152 to Hwy 101, 280 or 380 to SF. Still won't be all that good in some parts. You don't want to be on 101 when you get very close to SF.
I'd ask to borrow a bike trailer, but have no idea when I could get it back to you.
So are you buying that HD trike?
-Don- Auburn, CA
Now that I have more time (now in Auburn, no longer rushing to leave Reno) I will go over some other points.
In most cases, it is best to not start at 100% SOC (State of Charge). The charge rate MUST slow down a lot near the top. Same is true at the very bottom of the SOC. Charge to 100% when it is needed for extra range and occasionally at other times for the best cell balancing.
But at least the 100% is at the bottom of the hill, but is it really 100 SOC? Or is that just an indication of where they want it?
Charging more times is faster than charging less times!. ????
Less time will be spent recharging when at 35 % SOC and stopping the charge at 80% SOC. IOW, charge twice for ten minutes each instead of one time for more than 35 minutes to get the exact same miles added at the same type of charger.
The same happens with regen.
Regen power is VERY high in the midrange of the battery. Very low on each end. 80% SOC is too much for the top of the hill. They should try for 50% SOC on top of the hill and less than 80% SOC at the bottom.
But perhaps it indicates 100% SOC at that true 60%. That is an unknown, as we didn't design it. No doubt a lot of this stuff was thought about in the design.
But starting at real 100% SOC is a big waste of energy. You never want to be up there, except then you expect to discharge to below 10% at the end of the trip as you need the full possible range. In fact, regen turns completely off or to almost nothing in EVs when getting close to 100% SOC. The exception is for occasional cell balancing, once in a great while let it charge to full. And then use some of it so it doesn't stay at full too long.
Charging near full very inefficient. If the BMS (Battery Management System which is built into EV batteries) would let it really charge at the full rate near 100% SOC , the battery could catch fire if not explode.
My Tesla gives me a warning when charged to full as soon as I drive "Warning: REGEN temporality suspended".
My Energica says "Warning, no regen!" Get down to 95% and you get SOME regen. Full regen a few miles later, perhaps at 90%.
No regen means the car / bike will coast a lot better, and good coasting is NOT what EV owners expect. It means I will have to use the brake where I normally would not even need to touch it.
Look at the specs of charge times on most EVs. They rate them (let me check a manual here for a real number): "DC Fast Charge, 0-85% SOC in 20 minutes". That is from My Energica motorcycle manual. Now you know why they are rated in that way. They don't want to mention that very slow charge rate above 85% SOC. And it has started to slow down a little at perhaps 75% SOC. Then it's a progressive slowdown from there.
And to add a little more confusion to this issue, no EV battery will be 100% fully charged at 100 SOC. Nor will it be fully discharged at BELOW Zero SOC (there is a reserve) when the EV will no longer run (other than military Evs). EVs made for the military have a switch to use that very last 10 or 15% percent of the real charge (well below the 0 SOC indicated) that will most likely permanently ruin the very expensive battery but could save a life.
There are two specs for KWH on a battery. And some cheating goes on because of this. Zero Motorcycle cheats. Their 14.4 KWH battery can never be charged to that 14.4KWH. The BMS will not allow that very expensive battery to be ruined! It will charge to about 11.6 KWHs according to some battery techs in the electric motorcycle forum.
Energica does not cheat. Their spec reads like this "21.5 kWH max / 18.9 KWH nominal." It will stop being charged when at 18.9 KWH and all of that 18.9 KWH can be used.
73, -Don- AA6GA Auburn, CA
In most cases, it is best to not start at 100% SOC (State of Charge). The charge rate MUST slow down a lot near the top. Same is true at the very bottom of the SOC. Charge to 100% when it is needed for extra range and occasionally at other times for the best cell balancing.
But at least the 100% is at the bottom of the hill, but is it really 100 SOC? Or is that just an indication of where they want it?
Charging more times is faster than charging less times!
. ????Less time will be spent recharging when at 35 % SOC and stopping the charge at 80% SOC. IOW, charge twice for ten minutes each instead of one time for more than 35 minutes to get the exact same miles added at the same type of charger.
The same happens with regen.
Regen power is VERY high in the midrange of the battery. Very low on each end. 80% SOC is too much for the top of the hill. They should try for 50% SOC on top of the hill and less than 80% SOC at the bottom.
But perhaps it indicates 100% SOC at that true 60%. That is an unknown, as we didn't design it. No doubt a lot of this stuff was thought about in the design.
But starting at real 100% SOC is a big waste of energy. You never want to be up there, except then you expect to discharge to below 10% at the end of the trip as you need the full possible range. In fact, regen turns completely off or to almost nothing in EVs when getting close to 100% SOC. The exception is for occasional cell balancing, once in a great while let it charge to full. And then use some of it so it doesn't stay at full too long.
Charging near full very inefficient. If the BMS (Battery Management System which is built into EV batteries) would let it really charge at the full rate near 100% SOC , the battery could catch fire if not explode.
My Tesla gives me a warning when charged to full as soon as I drive "Warning: REGEN temporality suspended".
My Energica says "Warning, no regen!" Get down to 95% and you get SOME regen. Full regen a few miles later, perhaps at 90%.
No regen means the car / bike will coast a lot better, and good coasting is NOT what EV owners expect. It means I will have to use the brake where I normally would not even need to touch it.
Look at the specs of charge times on most EVs. They rate them (let me check a manual here for a real number): "DC Fast Charge, 0-85% SOC in 20 minutes". That is from My Energica motorcycle manual. Now you know why they are rated in that way. They don't want to mention that very slow charge rate above 85% SOC. And it has started to slow down a little at perhaps 75% SOC. Then it's a progressive slowdown from there.
And to add a little more confusion to this issue, no EV battery will be 100% fully charged at 100 SOC. Nor will it be fully discharged at BELOW Zero SOC (there is a reserve) when the EV will no longer run (other than military Evs). EVs made for the military have a switch to use that very last 10 or 15% percent of the real charge (well below the 0 SOC indicated) that will most likely permanently ruin the very expensive battery but could save a life.
There are two specs for KWH on a battery. And some cheating goes on because of this. Zero Motorcycle cheats. Their 14.4 KWH battery can never be charged to that 14.4KWH. The BMS will not allow that very expensive battery to be ruined! It will charge to about 11.6 KWHs according to some battery techs in the electric motorcycle forum.
Energica does not cheat. Their spec reads like this "21.5 kWH max / 18.9 KWH nominal." It will stop being charged when at 18.9 KWH and all of that 18.9 KWH can be used.
73, -Don- AA6GA Auburn, CA
Gas 1/4 tank left fill to top at next station 7 minutes or a little more if you have a big tank.
Stop for lunch top off tank, won't hurt a darn thing, just the added weight of a full tank of gas.
Stop to pee, unless it by the side of the road or a rest stop fill the tank it's only going to take around 7 minutes and you're on road again.
What you don't want to do is to allow the gas tank to become empty. The gas actually cools the fuel pump in the tank, so some gas left in the tank is good for the fuel pump.
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The bike is in So. San Fran, just past the airport.
We're probably taking the 5 up and cross over to the 101 at Los Banos. It's the shortest, (as if there were any), way. Won't be anywhere near Auburn.
It's a 2002 Ultra Classic w/ 43k miles, but the engine was rebuilt at 40k. 95 inch, big bore kit, Lehman kit w/ independent suspension. Baker 6 speed w/ reverse, etc. All receipts since new.
Not a scratch. Washed and waxed every month. Looks brand new.
We're probably taking the 5 up and cross over to the 101 at Los Banos. It's the shortest, (as if there were any), way. Won't be anywhere near Auburn.
It's a 2002 Ultra Classic w/ 43k miles, but the engine was rebuilt at 40k. 95 inch, big bore kit, Lehman kit w/ independent suspension. Baker 6 speed w/ reverse, etc. All receipts since new.
Not a scratch. Washed and waxed every month. Looks brand new.
I used to live in SSF, just north of the airport. Zip 94080. The very base of San Bruno Mountain (the hill you see as you drive north).
Yeah, HWY 152 isn't bad these days. Back in the early 1970's it was the most dangerous road in all of CA. But now it's all divided and safe. My closest call ever was on that road back then. I went around a curve and a truck was passing another truck blocking the entire road. I went between the two trucks, expecting to be killed on my new 1971 BMW R75/5. I think I came within two or three inches of both trucks. Much more scary than anything I experienced in the infantry in Vietnam, just before then.
Yeah, that is a good way to go, as long as there are no reports of fog on I-5. Take 99N to 46W to Wasco, and I-5N to Hwy 152W as I mentioned before. If there is a report of fog on I-5, stay on 99 north instead, to 120W to 205W to 580W to 17S. Then south a few miles on 17S to the San Mateo Bridge to get to Hwy 101N. By then you're quite close to SSF.
I-5 in the fog is extremely dangerous and very few places to get off the freeway.
Why would the engine need a rebuild at 40K miles?
Usually a reverse is not needed in a trike. But I wish my 2017 RoadGlide (M8 engine) had a reverse! That thing is around 1,000 lbs.
-Don- Auburn, CA
Yeah, HWY 152 isn't bad these days. Back in the early 1970's it was the most dangerous road in all of CA. But now it's all divided and safe. My closest call ever was on that road back then. I went around a curve and a truck was passing another truck blocking the entire road. I went between the two trucks, expecting to be killed on my new 1971 BMW R75/5. I think I came within two or three inches of both trucks. Much more scary than anything I experienced in the infantry in Vietnam, just before then.
Yeah, that is a good way to go, as long as there are no reports of fog on I-5. Take 99N to 46W to Wasco, and I-5N to Hwy 152W as I mentioned before. If there is a report of fog on I-5, stay on 99 north instead, to 120W to 205W to 580W to 17S. Then south a few miles on 17S to the San Mateo Bridge to get to Hwy 101N. By then you're quite close to SSF.
I-5 in the fog is extremely dangerous and very few places to get off the freeway.
Why would the engine need a rebuild at 40K miles?
Usually a reverse is not needed in a trike. But I wish my 2017 RoadGlide (M8 engine) had a reverse! That thing is around 1,000 lbs.
-Don- Auburn, CA