WTB WTB: Starter Precision Rifle
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You need to check out the .224 Valkyrie cartridge and rifles. Cost less to shoot than 6.5 or .308. Seriously outperforms .308 for distance accuracy and out past 1000 yards is still better performing than the 6.5 Creedmore. Palmetto State Armory has COMPLETE uppers for sale for $349.
https://palmettostatearmory.com/ar-15/barreled-upper-assemblies.html?caliber_multi=2033
This upper has a twist of 1 in 6-1/2, the one I bought from them is 1 in 7 twist. Mine likes the 75gr .224 cartridges just slightly better. The 1 in 6-1/2 is supposed to perform better with the 90gr .224 cartridges but there is a video on you-tube where a guy tries a lot of factory and hand-loads of .224 with both rifle twists and he gets pretty much the same result with most loads out of either barrel.
It is also easier on the shoulder than the .308 or the 6.5.
Make sure you buy the right mags. The .224 Valkyrie does not use .223/5.56mm mags, it uses the 6.8 mags which fit into any AR-15 lower. Do a search of online for mags, I've found them on sale for as low as $12 for 10 round.
Ventura Munitions has the best selection of .224 Valkyrie cartridges in town at reasonable prices. They also had some 30 round 6.8 mags but those things are a mile long!
Also get really good glass with a First Focal Reticle for long distance shooting. High power does not mean good glass. I use a Leupold Mark 6 1-6x20mm with TMR-D reticle on my 1000 yard rifle (Leupold #115045). It's a little pricey but the view is so much cleaner than a lot of higher magnification/lower cost scopes and the reticle is amazing for long distance shooting.
Happy Shooting!
https://palmettostatearmory.com/ar-15/barreled-upper-assemblies.html?caliber_multi=2033
This upper has a twist of 1 in 6-1/2, the one I bought from them is 1 in 7 twist. Mine likes the 75gr .224 cartridges just slightly better. The 1 in 6-1/2 is supposed to perform better with the 90gr .224 cartridges but there is a video on you-tube where a guy tries a lot of factory and hand-loads of .224 with both rifle twists and he gets pretty much the same result with most loads out of either barrel.
It is also easier on the shoulder than the .308 or the 6.5.
Make sure you buy the right mags. The .224 Valkyrie does not use .223/5.56mm mags, it uses the 6.8 mags which fit into any AR-15 lower. Do a search of online for mags, I've found them on sale for as low as $12 for 10 round.
Ventura Munitions has the best selection of .224 Valkyrie cartridges in town at reasonable prices. They also had some 30 round 6.8 mags but those things are a mile long!
Also get really good glass with a First Focal Reticle for long distance shooting. High power does not mean good glass. I use a Leupold Mark 6 1-6x20mm with TMR-D reticle on my 1000 yard rifle (Leupold #115045). It's a little pricey but the view is so much cleaner than a lot of higher magnification/lower cost scopes and the reticle is amazing for long distance shooting.
Happy Shooting!
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Good advise from soundguy! I second his advice to buy good quality optics. Your rifle is only as repeatable and accurate as your scope allows it to be. You're budget is great, but you really don't need to spend that much to get a sub-moa rifle. If you aren't looking to hunt with it then take soundguys advice and go with a cheaper cartridge. You'll shoot more often a probably get more enjoyment out of it. If you're looking for a chassis gun like the RPR there are many great options on the market now. Weatherby vanguard chassis rifles are available for $799 @ CDNN Sports. That was the original price point for the RPR, but popularity drove up the price. The RPR uses an American action. The Weatherby uses a Howa action and is typically guaranteed sub-moa. Both great rifles. If you go with a traditional type rifle rather than a chassis gun make sure you bed your scope mount. If your interested I can go in more detail on optics, but the 1st focal plane preference is something that has only recently gained popularity and is a matter of opinion. I prefer 2nd focal plane scopes. The eye relief is more forgiving and I don't like my reticle getting magnified at higher powers. Guys like the mil. or moa reference to remain the same regardless of magnification, but they are typically using the turrets for correction anyway so it only matters if you need more correction than your turret allows or you think you need to take a quick shot. Most my scopes are 15-18x and stay on the high power so I can still use my reticle reference too, but with a fine cross hair.
if your just starting out I would go with a AR 15, still get decent distance and the cost of ammo will not kill you, the cheapest factory 308 will run you .55 a round & up along with the other long distance calibers. 223/556 runs anywhere from .28/.30 a round.
and by chance I have a nice quality build spikes long range set up with scope for $1250, listed here, worth a look to get you started.
and by chance I have a nice quality build spikes long range set up with scope for $1250, listed here, worth a look to get you started.
I have available a very nice FULL CUSTOM .224 Valkyrie build AR with the correct 6.8SPC mags available that was assembled with the best hand picked components if you’d like some info on that unit PM me and I’d be happy to send some pics and further details. Price point is going to be at the higher end of what your looking to spend but it’s a beautiful piece of work.
The big advantage to 1st Focal Plane vs 2nd Focal plane reticles in long distance shooting is that 1st Focal Plane the image AND the reticle remain in constant corrolation. A really good scope does 3 things:
1 - It lets you see your target as clearly as possible.
2 - It lets you size your target almost regardless of range.
3 - It lets you use holdover marks reliably regardless of the range to the target!
The 1st Focal Plane reticles have become the standard for long range shooters in all branches of the U.S. Military because they allow more precise ranging and holdover with the reticle verse having to adjust the crosshairs as much.
With a 2nd Focal Plane scope you can only use some reticles (epending on type, Mil-Dot/TMR) at the MAXIMUM magnification. With plain crosshairs this isn't as much of an issue.
1 - You can see your target BUT
2 - You can't size your target UNLESS you have the scope at MAXIMUM magnification and depending on the reticle in the scope.
3 - If your scope has any holdover marks they are only accurate with the scope at MAXIMUM magnification.
If your scope is not at maximum magnification the ability to size and range your target will be off as will be any holdover marking on the reticle.
With the Leupold Mark 6 1-6x20mm I use on my long range rifle with the TMR-D here is how the reticle works:
At 1000 Yards the holdover marks are 18" apart.
At 500 Yards the same holdover marks are 9" apart
At 250 Yards they are 4.5" apart.
This is correct at ANY magnification with the 1st Focal Plane Leupold TMR reticle.
If your target is 6' tall at 1000 Yards the target is 2 holdover marks above and below the center crosshairs.
At 500 Yards a 6' Target is 4 holdover marks above and below the center crosshairs.
As long as you know your distance and your approximate bullet drop at those distances with a 1st Focal Plane TMR reticle you can use the holdover marks on the verticle to place your shot WITHOUT adjusting your elevation dial up to the number of holdover marks on the reticle, at longer distances you can also use the elevation dial.
On another rifle I have a Leupold VX-6 3-Gun 1-6x24mm with 2nd Focal Plane SPR reticle. With the Leupold SPR reticle you sight in your rifle at 200 meters at MAXIMUM magnification. At 200 Meters a 6'6" target fills the Circle at 200 meters and the holdover marks are 18" apart in the Reticle.
At 500 Yards the holdover marks would be approx 45" and at 1000 yards approx 90".
Either scope is fine for Zombies at 200 meters/Yards but once you start to reach out and touch a target at greater distance the 2nd Focal Plane Leupold SPR reticle gets left in the dust by the 1st Focal Plane TMR by the time you get to 500 plus yards unless you really like adjusting your elevation dial AND very few scopes have enough verticle crosshair adjustment to dial up more than 500/600 yards of bullet drop when zeroed to 200 yards or meters (depends on what distance the manufacturer recommends you sight your scope at).
Most long distance shooters use a 20-30 MOA slanted scope base to get in the ballpark for long distance shooting even before starting to dial in the elevation on their scopes at whatever range they sight in.
There is a pretty big difference in reticles that are good for Zombies and long range target shooting between reticles and the amount of adjustment, and how fine adjustment between the 2 types of scopes. I'll try to post some pics of the reticles of the scope I use for different purposes.
Sorry for the crappy pics!
1 - It lets you see your target as clearly as possible.
2 - It lets you size your target almost regardless of range.
3 - It lets you use holdover marks reliably regardless of the range to the target!
The 1st Focal Plane reticles have become the standard for long range shooters in all branches of the U.S. Military because they allow more precise ranging and holdover with the reticle verse having to adjust the crosshairs as much.
With a 2nd Focal Plane scope you can only use some reticles (epending on type, Mil-Dot/TMR) at the MAXIMUM magnification. With plain crosshairs this isn't as much of an issue.
1 - You can see your target BUT
2 - You can't size your target UNLESS you have the scope at MAXIMUM magnification and depending on the reticle in the scope.
3 - If your scope has any holdover marks they are only accurate with the scope at MAXIMUM magnification.
If your scope is not at maximum magnification the ability to size and range your target will be off as will be any holdover marking on the reticle.
With the Leupold Mark 6 1-6x20mm I use on my long range rifle with the TMR-D here is how the reticle works:
At 1000 Yards the holdover marks are 18" apart.
At 500 Yards the same holdover marks are 9" apart
At 250 Yards they are 4.5" apart.
This is correct at ANY magnification with the 1st Focal Plane Leupold TMR reticle.
If your target is 6' tall at 1000 Yards the target is 2 holdover marks above and below the center crosshairs.
At 500 Yards a 6' Target is 4 holdover marks above and below the center crosshairs.
As long as you know your distance and your approximate bullet drop at those distances with a 1st Focal Plane TMR reticle you can use the holdover marks on the verticle to place your shot WITHOUT adjusting your elevation dial up to the number of holdover marks on the reticle, at longer distances you can also use the elevation dial.
On another rifle I have a Leupold VX-6 3-Gun 1-6x24mm with 2nd Focal Plane SPR reticle. With the Leupold SPR reticle you sight in your rifle at 200 meters at MAXIMUM magnification. At 200 Meters a 6'6" target fills the Circle at 200 meters and the holdover marks are 18" apart in the Reticle.
At 500 Yards the holdover marks would be approx 45" and at 1000 yards approx 90".
Either scope is fine for Zombies at 200 meters/Yards but once you start to reach out and touch a target at greater distance the 2nd Focal Plane Leupold SPR reticle gets left in the dust by the 1st Focal Plane TMR by the time you get to 500 plus yards unless you really like adjusting your elevation dial AND very few scopes have enough verticle crosshair adjustment to dial up more than 500/600 yards of bullet drop when zeroed to 200 yards or meters (depends on what distance the manufacturer recommends you sight your scope at).
Most long distance shooters use a 20-30 MOA slanted scope base to get in the ballpark for long distance shooting even before starting to dial in the elevation on their scopes at whatever range they sight in.
There is a pretty big difference in reticles that are good for Zombies and long range target shooting between reticles and the amount of adjustment, and how fine adjustment between the 2 types of scopes. I'll try to post some pics of the reticles of the scope I use for different purposes.
Sorry for the crappy pics!
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AR Lower $200-$300 complete used.
Palmetto State Armory COMPLETE NEW UPPER $350
A few mags $50-$60
Leaves you $1000-$1400 for a nice scope
You can always move the scope between rifles if you need to and up with an AR platform or a bolt gun. Once you get a real nice scope you'll keep it even if you end up moving on to different rifles. No one sells a good scope (or rifle) unless they really need money.
Leupold now has a VX-3I-LRP with the First Focal Plane TMR reticle for $1299 MSRP normally around $999 street price and they were on sale at Sportsman's Warehouse for $899 a couple of weeks ago:
https://www.leupold.com/scopes/rifle-scopes/vx-3i-lrp-8-5-25x50mm-30mm-side-focus-mil-ffp
For the money this is the best entry level long range scope in my humble opinion.
The PSA upper has a 20" barrel and will easily let you reach out 1000 yards+ with the .224 Valkyrie
Any AR with a good barrel is a contender in the 1000 yard category if you take into account the bullet.
My Colt Match Target has a 1/7 twist 20" barrel and with 70+ grain bullets can reach out and touch steel WAY out there.
I got the .224 Valkyrie upper to see if I could get past 1000 yards and for an AR platform it sure seems to work!
Palmetto State Armory COMPLETE NEW UPPER $350
A few mags $50-$60
Leaves you $1000-$1400 for a nice scope
You can always move the scope between rifles if you need to and up with an AR platform or a bolt gun. Once you get a real nice scope you'll keep it even if you end up moving on to different rifles. No one sells a good scope (or rifle) unless they really need money.Leupold now has a VX-3I-LRP with the First Focal Plane TMR reticle for $1299 MSRP normally around $999 street price and they were on sale at Sportsman's Warehouse for $899 a couple of weeks ago:
https://www.leupold.com/scopes/rifle-scopes/vx-3i-lrp-8-5-25x50mm-30mm-side-focus-mil-ffp
For the money this is the best entry level long range scope in my humble opinion.
The PSA upper has a 20" barrel and will easily let you reach out 1000 yards+ with the .224 Valkyrie
Any AR with a good barrel is a contender in the 1000 yard category if you take into account the bullet.
My Colt Match Target has a 1/7 twist 20" barrel and with 70+ grain bullets can reach out and touch steel WAY out there.
I got the .224 Valkyrie upper to see if I could get past 1000 yards and for an AR platform it sure seems to work!
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Pretty thorough explanation. Not sure why you directed it a me though. I'm sure many others will appreciate the info. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and what is best for them. I prefer SFP for the reasons I mentioned. I have extensive experience with both and currently own both. I range just fine with my SFP because, like I said, there is no reason to use the lower power ranges and at max magnification I have a finer crosshair. Even when using the Nightforce ATACS there is a huge difference in eye relief. Drives me nuts, but to each their own. Building a rifle to suit your needs is really what's important. I have come to love my Bushnell LRHS on a titanium mountain rifle I shoot. It weighs in at about 21oz, still offers accurate/repeatable turret correction, zero stop, and has a low profile turret. Downside is the reticle and FFP. I don't need it when using my Leica Geovid HD-B binos. Thankfully it has a pretty nice eye box though so it hasn't hindered quick target acquisition.
Hi,
Didn't mean to direct it at anyone, just hit the reply button out of habit I guess, no ill will directed toward you at all
And I do use a "normal" reticle 2nd focal plane scope on one of my favorite rifles, Ruger K77-22 with a Leupold Vari-X III 4.5-14x40AO with fine crosshairs. Superb range practice or small critter set-up. Also on my Win 9422M a Leupold VX-II 3-9 Duplex. It's only for longer range guns I prefer the FFP scopes.
Happy shooting & all the best to you!
Didn't mean to direct it at anyone, just hit the reply button out of habit I guess, no ill will directed toward you at all
And I do use a "normal" reticle 2nd focal plane scope on one of my favorite rifles, Ruger K77-22 with a Leupold Vari-X III 4.5-14x40AO with fine crosshairs. Superb range practice or small critter set-up. Also on my Win 9422M a Leupold VX-II 3-9 Duplex. It's only for longer range guns I prefer the FFP scopes.
Happy shooting & all the best to you!
Thanks for all of the solid input. I am impressed by the .224 but was hoping to stray away from the AR platform. I built a really nice sub-moa .223 one years back and it shot amazing groups and was cheap to shoot. But it's tempting to do .224, so I did find a store in town with a complete quality .224 upper for $400
Upper -$400
Lower - $120 (CNC one)
Trigger- $100 (JMT love these for the $$)
Lower parts - $40
Upgraded Misc lower parts - $60
Ace Stock - $120
Ergo Grip - $50
Geissle buffer & spring - $60
Mags - $30 for 2
Bipod - $100
Total w/o Glass and base: $1080
Say with a glass budget of $500, ideas? Want to shoot reliable groups to 1000yrds
Still on the fence, wish I knew of a local store that stocked a decent selection of Precision Rifles besides sportsmans(overpriced), if anyone knows....
Upper -$400
Lower - $120 (CNC one)
Trigger- $100 (JMT love these for the $$)
Lower parts - $40
Upgraded Misc lower parts - $60
Ace Stock - $120
Ergo Grip - $50
Geissle buffer & spring - $60
Mags - $30 for 2
Bipod - $100
Total w/o Glass and base: $1080
Say with a glass budget of $500, ideas? Want to shoot reliable groups to 1000yrds
Still on the fence, wish I knew of a local store that stocked a decent selection of Precision Rifles besides sportsmans(overpriced), if anyone knows....
Hi,
Didn't mean to direct it at anyone, just hit the reply button out of habit I guess, no ill will directed toward you at all
And I do use a "normal" reticle 2nd focal plane scope on one of my favorite rifles, Ruger K77-22 with a Leupold Vari-X III 4.5-14x40AO with fine crosshairs. Superb range practice or small critter set-up. Also on my Win 9422M a Leupold VX-II 3-9 Duplex. It's only for longer range guns I prefer the FFP scopes.
Happy shooting & all the best to you!
Didn't mean to direct it at anyone, just hit the reply button out of habit I guess, no ill will directed toward you at all
And I do use a "normal" reticle 2nd focal plane scope on one of my favorite rifles, Ruger K77-22 with a Leupold Vari-X III 4.5-14x40AO with fine crosshairs. Superb range practice or small critter set-up. Also on my Win 9422M a Leupold VX-II 3-9 Duplex. It's only for longer range guns I prefer the FFP scopes.
Happy shooting & all the best to you!
Just an update, bought a FFP scope tonight. Fell in love with it in Sportmans. A Black Nikon FX1000 6-24x50SF Illuminated FX-MOA. Hoping to find the 20moa Nikon scope base in town.
Just trying to decide on a rifle at this point. Might buy a $550 6.5 rifle and a .224 upper(use with current lower) and I’m still under budget OR go with a Bergara 6.5, Ruger 6.5 Precision or TC LRR 6.5.
I’m horrible at making decisions sometimes LOL
Just trying to decide on a rifle at this point. Might buy a $550 6.5 rifle and a .224 upper(use with current lower) and I’m still under budget OR go with a Bergara 6.5, Ruger 6.5 Precision or TC LRR 6.5.
I’m horrible at making decisions sometimes LOL
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